#163 FiLiA Meets Zemzem Mohamed in conversation with Raquel Rosario Sanchez

Zemzem Mohamed speaks to FiLiA about the women and children who are being impacted now by the Tigray genocide.

Raquel: Welcome everybody to the FiLiA podcast. My name is Raquel Rosario Sanchez, and I am the spokeswoman for FiLiA. 

Today we are speaking with Zemzem Mohammad, who is a refugee from east Africa. And she will be speaking to us about the conflict in the Tigray region in Ethiopia. There is a genocide situation going on, and she's helping refugees in particularly women who have suffered sexual abuse and rape and their children to be able to get to a safer place.

So, first of all, Zemzem how are you?

Zemzem: Hello, thank you very much for inviting me for your broadcast and I would like to introduce myself, my name is Zemzem and I'm fine thank you, I'm doing very well.

Raquel: And you're currently in London. So right now I am speaking to you, we’ve been in touch, you've been in touch with FiLiA for a long time.

You also spoke at the FiLiA conference, you had space to address our audience about the humanitarian crisis that is happening in Ethiopia and with the Tigray region. You were able to speak about that during a session that was allotted to the feminist campaigner, Julie Bindel. So would you mind talking to our audience about your intervention during that session?

Zemzem: I did speak about it. I'm so grateful for having that chance from Julie who introduced me to this session. It was incredible having all the support from everybody who was there. It was just a big relief as well, making sure that the awareness has been spread.

 So what has happened in Tigray, Tigray is a region which is in the north of Ethiopia, it has like six and half to seven million populations and generally Ethiopia has 100 million population. So it is the minority ethnic group in Tigray.

 So in Tigray, since the 4th of November, there is been a genocide that been declared by the Ethiopian prime minister Abiy Ahmed

 But prior to the 4th of November Tigray has been targeted for their ethnic roots, but it was not that very official, but since the 4th of November has been really like, been announced officially that for attacking the Tigrayan and ethnic cleansing. And they did very horrible things. A lot of war crimes has happened, sexual violence has been committed against women and girls in Tigray. When we come to that in details, why they concentrate on women and children is just because as we say, it's a genocide, they want to make sure that wiping us off, like we would never exist again. The women and the children in Tigray as well as the elderly people. 

Rapes has been done from age of 16 up to 65-year-old woman has been raped. The way of raping a woman an horrific way because over 10 people has been raping one or two women that has given their testimony.

And again some of the women as well, which has been back up with the CNN report. 

 So one of the victims, a woman who has been raped more than 10 or 15 times, they put in her vagina some stuff, in a really disturbing video. There is in a CNN report, which they have done really great work of making an operation for the woman to take out what they have left in her womb to damage the womb itself.

To see that it's just heart breaking to see that video, because it's really showing you so many things that they put it inside her vagina so that she can't have children any longer. And this has happened to several women that has happened to them. However, it's not every woman that has the courage to come out and talk because, one of the things that I noticed in Ethiopia and Eritrea, because they have same culture is when a woman gets raped, it's just a shame and nobody wanted to accept it, even her own family members, they wouldn't stand with her. They feel like it's just happened. It's a shame. And there's nothing they could do about it. They just deny existence of the person rather than a system, or, that person will be physically, mentally, affected with what has happened.

 And of course it's not their fault they've been raped and they shouldn't be ashamed of themselves. The people who done it, they should be ashamed of what they have done. However, but because of the culture and all that, women get to suffer a lot. I personally know exactly how they feel, and that is why I understand them. And I wanted to work more with women who have been raped. And then of course, children who has been brought to hunger, where there is a manmade famine been confirmed by the UN and starvation is still there. It's been a year now since the 4th of November 2020 until now, 4th of November 2021.

  And the situation is getting just worse and worse and worse, and nothing has been done much yet. It's still the conflict is there.

Raquel: I have a couple of questions for you. Can you go back a little bit? Well, there are two questions that I would like to ask you first and first, I would like to know your personal position in all of this.

So are you, are you from the Tigray region or is your mother the one who is still currently there? Because I know that I'm speaking to you in London.

Zemzem: Yes. I am originally from Eritrea. My mother lived there as a refugee in Tigray. She has her brother who, her half-brother who is Ethiopian, her brother by her sister.

So she moved from Eritrea to Ethiopia to the Tigray region. So she live in Tigray region with her younger brother. So obviously I am, I'm not from Tigray. I'm from Eritrea. However I’m ashamed of being Eritrean because the Eritrean government is the one that committed this genocide and rape with the Ethiopian government, because they have been invaded to come and do what they have done.

It's not just one, it's not just the Ethiopian government has done it is plus the Eritrean government troops, as well as the Amhara militia and the Amhara Alliance. So, it's not one part has come to Tigray, even though we are very, they are very minority, but again, it is a combination of three or four troops has come to Tigray to commit this genocide.

Raquel: Well, we will speak a little bit about that in a second, but I want to mention that you have a GoFundMe page and we're going to link for this podcast so people will be able to donate to the fund. 

 You write in your GoFundMe page.

 ‘I am a refugee from east Africa and sadly, because my mother has been caught up in the Tigray region in Ethiopia, I have been made aware of the terrible genocide in the Tigray region in Ethiopia, as a result, I am currently fundraising to help Tigrayan women who have been raped and children who are starving as a result of the famine in the Tigray region, as well as impacting on those who have been displaced to Sudan’s refugee camps’

Would you mind explaining what the conflict is about?

Zemzem: Yeah, you're right, not everybody knows about the Tigray because Tigray is a small region, as I said. So of course I will explain. And again, the conflict, as far as I know, is the Tigray and has been ruling for over 27 years to Ethiopia. And then of course, when now they met the Nobel prize winner, met the Prime Minister of Ethiopia when he took on power. He decided first to make sure that the Tigray regions will not be able to participate in some office politics things and the Tigrayan government decided to take action in terms of, he was not elected, but he was replaced because the previous Prime Minister, Meles Zenawi who was ruling the country, he died and then somebody else was replaced and then that person has resigned.

So then Abiy Ahmed was replacing him, then the Tigrayan government asked for an election and the election was due and Abiy Ahmed decided not to go ahead with the election because of the situation of coronavirus and Tigrayan challenge them saying we can put everything in to make sure that everybody do it safely.

And when they decided to say, no, then the Tigrayan government went ahead and did the election in their region only. And based on that Abiy Ahmed said this is illegal and I need to bring every one of you who has done the election to the justice, because you shouldn't have run the election because I am the government here. And that is where it started 

Raquel: So this conflict that resulted from some political leaders, particularly the Ethiopian prime minister who refused to step down and did not allow elections to go ahead as a result of that. According to him as a result of the coronavirus, the Tigrayan were considered to be rebels, but the leaders in the Tigrayan region decided, well, we can put the elections together in a way that is safe.

 But there's a difference between an electoral conflict, and that happens all the time. Elections get problems all the time. 

There's a difference between an electoral conflict and genocide. And you're talking at the beginning of this podcast about the rape of women and some of it in very brutal ways. I mean, every rape was just a horrible tragedy and a crime.

 But, but I wonder, where was that line between we're fighting about politics and elections, and now there's a genocide going on?

Zemzem: Yes. So basically, when this has happened, as I said earlier, he declared on the 4th of November he accused the Tigrayan government that they attacked his military on the border. And he says, since that you start attacking my troops, then I have to declare a war and making sure to bring those people who are in power in Tigray those people are not even more than 10. If he wanted to make sure that to get them to justice, then he would have used different ways of capturing these people rather than declaring the whole war to the whole region.

 Raquel:  Do you think that then the election issue was some sort of cover for an ethnic conflict that had been simmering within for a while?

Zemzem: Yes. It has been, it has been. Tigrayan has been targeted for their ethnicity. They've been arrested, this is even going on up to now, but now it's more worse. Before the budget was not getting to Tigray. He was cutting the budget. He was arresting people randomly who even don't have anything to do with politics, not necessarily in Tigray, but anywhere in Ethiopia where they live. They used to be arrested, with no question. And they stay and remain in the prison with no justice been made for them.

And they are still there, they are prisoners. 

Raquel: So when you're describing these, there has been a human rights conflict that was risking all of these electoral issues in which people were being denied justice in which people were treated unfairly by the government. So when the government says like, oh, don't worry, we will hold the event election eventually after the coronavirus that the Tigrayan government said, ‘we don't trust you because you have been very strict in our region for a very long time’. And in that context comes the November 4th declaration of war,

 A declaration of war. That is as high as you can go when it comes to escalating tensions. so what take us through that moment, what happened then? 

Zemzem: So we all took it as he just declared the war to capture the TPLF, which is the Tigrayan government. He invited the Eritrean government as well as the Somalian troops, as well as the Amhara militia and the elite, all of them come to Tigray and then committed the genocide. Because at that particular time, the Tigrayan government has left the city, you know, the government place. And they went to the desert where they hide somewhere. And because they can't capture them, what they did is, they went to every single house. Even my mum, when she described to me, I was shocked. They went to every single house and just start killing people randomly. And they just focus. Every house they visit, they say, do you have a man? Do you have a child? Do you have a woman that, you know, young ladies, those are the things they ask as soon as they enter people’s houses. They did a group killing, they bring people together like these young boys, young men, and they say to them, we know that you are the future of TPLF and we need to get rid of you. And they killed them. And some of them, even after they killed them, they put them like a barbecue, putting them in the fire. They put a body underneath and a body on the top.

 It's all been backdated in all the CNN and human rights, abuse, and all that. And they went to some churches as well. Like in Axiom, Axiom is the place where the King Solomon, they went there and in the church, they just randomly kill the people who were in that church like 700 people who were around because they had some ceremony and they just killed them all in one day.

Raquel: This is absolutely horrifying.

 Zemzem: Absolutely. Absolutely. And it does affect me. Like this year, I don't even know how it passed because it's just like mentally, physically, it does affect me because every single thing is what is happening here has happened to me before in Eritrea.

 So rape happened to me where I've seen it when I was in Eritrea being in prison. Yes. I've been in prison. So I know exactly how they feel these people. That is why I couldn't bear it at all to see in the 21st century, we still can see what has happened here. And I know my government, Eritrean government can do worse than this.

Our nation, which is myself, then he can do it through ammunition as well. The UN has confirmed that this has happened, the Eritrean government and all the and everything. It's just not yet to be confirmed fully that it's a genocide, they still didn't get full access to do the independent investigation, even though they have those CNN and Amnesty International, but they still wanted to assign like a joint investigation where they will assign both parties to see how it went.

Raquel: You spoke clearly earlier about how the people directly responsible for challenging the government and obviously challenging a government is not an excuse for murder. You know, people should be allowed to dissent and to be political dissidents and to have opinions contrary to the government and even is by holding the elections that was on a technicality, even if that was illegal, that is not a justification ever for violence.

But you mentioned the fact that the people who were directly involved in that were about 10 people. And now we were talking about just one crime committed in a church in which 700 people were murdered.

Zemzem: We also thought his aim is just to capture this number of people, but when they came, it was completely different and the Tigrayan people were not armed, normal civilians has not been armed, so they don't know what is happening and they can't defend themselves. So they were all killed, like the way that, you know, like a wild animal that had been killed just randomly.

And, uh, it has been done in so many different ways that in a horrific way, where by even those who does the killing will video and send it to the social media for us to see how they are killing them, which is more worse than ever. 

Raquel: Which is a way of terrifying, terrifying the population and trying to intimidate.

Zemzem: Absolutely. And, when they realized, the Tigrayans, they realized that, okay, this is a genocide because they know now they are not after the government, they are after us. We are dying here either way. So why can't we just join the Tigrayan government? And then they start getting to get in touch with the Tigrayan government and then start to be a military.

 They give them a short time training and then later on they try and defeat the Ethiopian government from the Capitol city and the rest of the small cities. And then they start going toward to the capital city to make sure that those blockage of humanitarian access to be lifted by advancing toward the capital city to bring the government down.

  Raquel: So the government, essentially the Ethiopian government instigated a rebellion, which was the natural and the logical thing to happen so that they can justify continuing to kill innocent people who are unarmed in Tigray.

  Zemzem: Yes, yes. So obviously now, even as we are speaking today, I had two phone calls this morning one in the early morning and one in the late morning, like 11. There's lots of Tigrayan people right now, as we are speaking, in the capital city of Addis Ababa, every single minute getting arrested and getting killed even in the capital city now, just because they are Tigrayan.

It has happened for the last two, three weeks, uh, you know, like more badly, and, the number has increased so rapidly, so women and children have been crying and saying, my son gone, my daughter, just because we are Tigrayan, we never even been to Tigray. We born and grow up in the capital city. We don't speak language. 

But it's just heart-breaking just for someone to go and target those people. And of course the government last week, he asked the Ethiopian people like to defend themselves by using whatever they want to use to go out there. And whoever they suspect, wherever he's from the Tigray, they should just take action.

And that was even taken from Facebook out from the European government page. Because it was violating their policy. It went that bad.

Raquel: So you, can you tell us a little bit about, so in this context, the government has used the excuse of an election to instigate a conflict that has all the characteristics of an ethnic cleansing against the Tigrayan people, can you tell us a little bit about the situation particularly for women and girls?

Zemzem: Yes, definitely. Uh, right now there is no any access of any phone or internet. I don't have any update right now about what is happening in Tigray. In the beginning when the conflict has happened and there is access, we have heard so many incidents and we were able to interview people, especially those who had the luck to go to Sudan, because there is lots of people who had luck to go to Sudan.

So they still stay in the refugee camp. And some of those women has been also raped. And, also there is children who has very critical conditions, health conditions, some of them has lost their legs. So, those are what is happening, but generally speaking in term of as I explained it earlier the rate of rape was really done the worst ever. You can’t explain it, it's just horrific way that you can never expect somebody, a human being would do such a thing, targeting a woman, always using a woman and rape as a weapon is just unbelievable to see those kinds of things happening now. And especially with our tradition and our cultures. When women get to be raped and nobody gets to understand them and just put the blame on them, it's just make them like hopeless.

Raquel: You write on your GoFundMe. And we're going to put a link on the page, but the GoFundMe page is titled ‘help Tigrayan women and starving children. You write there: 

‘My aim is to start by helping the Tigrayans and refugees in Sudan. The children are in need of clothes, milk, diapers, medication, but also the elderly currently that are already four 40,000 refugees in Sudan. And 12,000 of them are children. There is no access to those still stuck in Tigray, but when this changes I would like to reach out to them too. My place is to visit the refugee camps so that I can assess the essential needs and provide the aid. Please, can you help by donating to fund this project?

What has been the response to your GoFundMe project?

Zemzem: My aim is first of all, prior to bring it to you guys, I had a plan of just ‘I need to do something I can't just sit down and do nothing.’ And I remember that moment of how I decided. I had a phone call that my mum is in critical condition because she has no any medication left for her diabetic condition, for high blood pressure and all that. And she was really, really in a very critical condition. She can't even swallow water. They were dropping water with cotton, they put the cotton in the water and then drop it in her mouth. And I felt so bad. 

And I asked, I spoke to Harriet and Julie, I said, you know what, because I can't reach my mum. I can't send anything because there is no any access I am going to, I will have to do something. There must be a way that I have to help these refugee people who are luckily escaped from the Tigrayan region. And, I have to travel to Sudan in person, and try to see the essential need. And also I had savings of my children, from my work. 

Then I said, I'm going to use this amount to go travel as well as give the donation and get there to know that the essential need and then bring it out here and see whether other people can help us well, because I'm sure here's a lot of generous people out there that would love to help. So she now say to me, instead of you going by your own budget, which is just 3000. Why don't you share it with us, even though us we're going to help you, but again, why don't we spread it wider because we have this conference that coming soon, and then we can take it from there. And I was so happy because when you having more people, you can reach more people as well. And as long as I'm going there in person, of course, it's better to reach to most of the people, they actually see the number is quite big, those refugees. And so I said, yeah, no problem. And now my aim is going there, visit in person, giving the help, giving the support that I needed to give it, especially to those women that who needed the help from us as well as to give those children the milk and pampers all these things.

And there's lots of people there as well, who can’t get their medical, their medication, you know, their medical bills to be paid, or they can't do some operation because they can't afford those operations. And of course I have to see their needs and feel the most essential things that, with the fund I will be having, then I can support them to that way, but then I wanted to do it a long-term as well.

 It's not just once, I want to do something long-term that I can help, especially those women to mentor them, to show them like, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It is okay. You shouldn't be ashamed of this. And then we get them when they go back to Tigray. We get them to start with something as well.

Raquel:  So some people who are sympathisers to the Tigray conflict and the genocide are being murdered indiscriminately. You are saying that you are going to go into the region and risk your life.

Zemzem: Yes, I will go to the region, definitely because I'm not saying I'm going now when there is a conflict. I say when there is full access to Tigray not now.

Raquel: Yes. And your mother is there, but you can’t reach her.

 Zemzem: I can't reach her. I don't even know if she's alive or dead. Now this is two months ago that I had the phone call.

Raquel: Have you had any contact or information about her ever since?

Zemzem: No. They have family members, which is my family. They use the UN phone number to inform me that she's unwell. But then after that, I can't get any access because I can't call, there is not any phone that is working. There is no bank service. There is not any access, there's no road access for anybody to go there. So, but we’re hoping because the UN and the whole EU has put on so much pressure this week to gain access fully into Tigray to seize the fire, to bring both of them to the table, to see how they can sort it peacefully rather than militarily.

 And we hope if that happened, if Tigray got to be fully accessible for humanitarian, then I will be going in person. Definitely. And I will see those women in-person. 

Raquel: I am so sorry that the situation is so dire that you don't even know what health state your mother is in. And I just want to say that I am hoping, and obviously the whole FiLiA team, we are very much focused that your mother is alive and that she's healthy and that you will be able to be reunited with her.

I wanted to ask you, you mentioned the UN, the United Nations, and the European Union's involvement at this point, now that the situation has reached a critical point, but I just read that last week, early November 2021, so a year after the genocide started or escalated, the United States Embassy announced that it was ordering the departure of some of their staff -  And then this was after countries like Saudi Arabia, Norway, Sweden, and Denmark – that all their citizens to leave Ethiopia. 

Do you feel that the international community has abandoned the Tigray people?

Zemzem: Well, yes. Most of them, even the British, the UK has asked all their citizens to leave. So all the foreigners, including Sudan and South Sudan and the whole thing, they have asked their citizens to leave as soon as possible because the Tigrayan TPLF are 40 kilometres away from the capital city to capture the city. So because that will bring the government down and you can imagine how the conflict will be worse than ever for those foreigners as well to be there. And then bear in mind right now, he's not just arresting the Tigrayans. He's arresting the UN staff. There is over 3000 UN staff being detained right now.

By the government, because he accusing them that they are supporting the TPLF or they're spying for the TPLF.

Raquel: And then early November as well. The government organized protests that was also hostile to countries that have called to the end of the genocide. And some of the placards cards were saying, we don't need interference from abroad. And they were denouncing what you're essentially doing right now which is speaking honestly, about what is happening.

They were saying that this constituted fake news. So in essence, you have pressed it at Prime Minister who is a tyrant, who is murdering the people in the Tigrayan region, engaging in ethnic cleansing. 

So what can the international, in your opinion, what can the international community do to help your people?

Zemzem: First of all, they have to sanction Ethiopia and Eritrea and then get to the bottom of it. First of all, humanitarian access has to be fully accessible to those who are in need. Even if roads are closed, they should look for a way of bringing food by dropping, food, airdrop food, instead of only road, there must be a way to save these people one year with no full access.

 And, you know, the UN has reported that it's worse than ever. The feminists are going there. They have attempted once or twice to drop food by air, but I think. At that particular time, Abiy Ahmed was bombing Tigray every single day, weekly like six times. So at that particular time, when he gave them the green light to say, go ahead and go and drop the food.

He went behind them with his drone and then when they wanted to go down there the Tigrayan force discover that there is another drone in the back of them. And then they had the communication with the UN air force and then they had to ask them to turn back and then Ahmed’s drone has gone forward. And of course they bomb a clothes manufacture place.

 And since that, because it's also not safe for the EU air force. So they had to stop doing it. Again, it's another way of doing a blockage, you know, not getting the access to the Tigray that has slowed it.

That's why the Tigrayan now put their hope in their hand rather than from the foreigners, because the reason I'm saying that, because they just lost hope because every time they'd have those dialogue and they have every way of trying the UN to come and help, he is put in something to block us and the time is going longer and the people are dying every single second. So they had to push and push until they get to where they are now.

Raquel: Yes. And the United Nations, as of early November 2021, the United Nations Security Council has not taken any actions in support of the Tigrayan people, even though they recognize that there are famine conditions in Tigray and that the Ethiopian government is blocking the supply of aids and medicine to people who are affected.

So there's a situation in which the UN people have stated that the Ethiopian government is trying to not only start degrading, -  this was in an interview with PA PBS news hour. They were UN officials were asked, is the Ethiopian government trying to starve to Tigray? And the person who was asked was Mark Lowcock he said, yes, there is not just an attempt to starve 6 million people, but an attempt to cover up what is going on.

Zemzem: Absolutely because he's not allowing the independent investigator or journalists, like CNN had an interview last week, this week with the spokeswoman of the Prime Minister. And she was asking her, why can't we get into the bottom of this, to get access there to go and do our job.

Why can't you? And she was saying, uh, there is some other medias that we allow them. You have to obey our socials. So they just make an excuse because CNN has exposed them so badly last time when they went to Tigray. They exposed them of having Eritrean government inside the Tigrayan conflict where by the Ethiopian government was denying for such a long time that there is not any other foreigners troops in Tigray.

They are only Ethiopian troops, but when CNN went there and this discover those experience was all the evidence, then he had to admit it. He had no choice. 

Raquel: That’s the role of the media. The role of the media is to investigate all of this matters. You can’t just kick them out because they're finding out stuff that you don't want them to find out.

 So in every conceivable way, the Ethiopian government is behaving in a manner that is like a despot, like a tyrant. because they're not even allowing people to have elections so that they can decide on their own future. Instead when people tried to call the elections, the response is murder and rape.

Zemzem: Actually. Yeah, actually, while we are in this terrible moment in Tigray, he run his election without running an election in Tigray while Tigray are suffering and starving and going through all these things, he ran an election a few months ago. He has not run in a couple of other places as well, but he was elected now as a government. He does it on his own way, rather than everybody’s choice.

Raquel: I’ve been reading some reports in some news outlets. Is it true that the Ethiopian army has been defeated as in, I think it was last week or something? And that's why there's the tensions, the conflict, the conflict has been escalated?

Zemzem: Yes. What happened is that the Tigrayan has defeated them first in June, around June to July from the capital city. And the Ethiopian government said, no, we were not defeated, we were just trying to let the farmers do their harvest so that they don't go through further hungers. And when he said that, that is only the capital city only he was driven from, he didn't withdraw from the other region. In Tigray there is Western Tigray. He still has his soldiers there.

 So however, that wouldn't be a reason sufficient for him to say that because even the farmers who grow those things, is in the west of Tigray. So how come he still keep his soldiers there? But there is no much soldier in the Capital city.

When they defeated them, the government, they didn't stop there. They carry on to the Amhara region and Hargeisa other regions. What happened is when they capture, Dessie and Hargeisa that's the more strategic place, that is why they lost hope the Ethiopian government, and then the whole international, UN and EU and everybody knew that this is the end because that is the strategic place that is too close to Addis as well is the route to take them between Djibouti and Ethiopia, where there is a line that delivered the goods and all sorts that will come to recover the city. So if there is no access there, if it's blocked, then there is no way even people will be able to survive in Addis.

Raquel: So do you think that the conflict is coming to an end? If forces are closing down on the government?

Zemzem: I personally believe there will not be any way of sitting those two government together to make a solution because the Tigrayan government, their points is they're happy to seize fire, but in terms of their conditions, their conditions is full humanitarian access to Tigray.

Before this is fires. they went all the Tigrayan prisoners that have had no justice to them over three years in prison, whether politician or civilian should be released.

Raquel: So you're saying these are sorry. You're saying these are the conditions from the Tigrayan government?

Zemzem: Yes. Yes. 

And recognize them as well as, you know, like a legitimate government in Tigray and I think there's another thing. I can't remember what was it? Uh, but anyway, because these are their conditions and the Ethiopian government refused none of this condition. So there is no way they could make peace.

However, the former Prime Minister of Nigeria has made a visit this week, not once but twice to the Tigray government, as well as to the Ethiopian government. And they try to do the dialogue, but however, I don't think it was successful, but it's still ongoing. but I believe before anything can be done with them, the Nigerian previous Prime Minister, the Tigrayan might possibly enter Addis Ababa as the CNN report yesterday or before yesterday, say they have got information that Tigrayan and has been surrounded with capital city. They are just there. So hopefully they can come and take over in the capital cities. Then they can seize the fire and get everybody full access of a humanitarian aid.

Raquel: So the conditions from the government are unreasonable. According to you.

Zemzem: Yes. unreasonable, unfair, unreasonable he’s been fully lying. He's been with the Eritrean government together.

How could you bring someone from another country government to genocide your own people? That is absolutely unfair.

And those people are innocent. We're talking about children and women. That is what their focus was. And that is absolutely terrible. And before, he declined, he said there is no any refugee women has gone to Sudan. They're all men who are young and there is no rape or anything, but now he admitted everything.

He said, yes, it happened. And I'm going to bring those people to justice. Where are those people? Those Eritreans, who has committed this genocide, they have gone back to the Eritrea or they went somewhere else to the Western of Tigray. So how is he going to get them to justice? 

Raquel: So there is no perspective of justice.

Zemzem: And how do I trust in him that to make justice when he is the one committed it in the first place? Why can't he allow independent investigators to come and do the investigation? Because we don't trust him anymore.

Raquel: Of course. How are you going to trust the murderer?

Zemzem: Absolutely. So we are requested the Tigrayan government every single day. They requested independent investigator at any time with full security will be provided. That's what they said. 

Raquel: What would be a solution to everything that you have just described over this podcast? What would be a solution from your point of view? Not from the Ethiopian point of view or the Tigrayan government's point of view, but for you a sense then as a woman who is deeply involved in trying to help your people, what would be justice for you?

Zemzem: Well, in terms of a political way or in terms of a humanitarian way, the way that I'm trying to help. Is it in term of the political settlements or, in terms of my way?

Raquel: Let's start with the political and then address the personal perspective. Okay.

Zemzem: I personally, from what I have observed so far from the beginning till now, Ahmed has to step down, not necessarily the Tigrayan government to come and put him down, but he has to step for the sake of the people safety, especially now the capital city has got so many people from different of the regions and the capital city is huge having the TPLF to come and bring in the government down that would have a lot of bloodshed in the city.

That is what I believe. So he should think of his own people’s safety and stand down. I know he's not agreeing with any of the condition, but again, for the sake of the people, he should just stand down and see what is going to happen. The UN and everybody has offered him to leave the country, but he decided not to.

Raquel: And preferably for him to be brought to justice.

Zemzem: Yes, of course he has to, he has to be brought to the ICC, him and Isaias Afwerki, the president of Eritrea.

Raquel: When you say ICC, are you referring to the International Criminal Court?

Zemzem: Yes. 

Raquel: Okay. And how do you see the conflict moving forward?

From the position of today with today's November 12th 2021, because they know that things aren't happening really fast.

They are happening fast now, but they have been going, badly for a very long time, but now it seems like every week we're getting something different. So as of November 20, November 12th, 2021, what would you consider to be a way moving forward?

Zemzem: I actually think within the weekend they will capture Addis Ababa.

 There is no doubt. And of course they will bring the government down and we see what will happen afterward. That will be the worst ever, even worse than Tigray in. Maybe in, Addis in terms of bloodshed. It's a big capital where it's a big city where everybody that comes from all over the places and having all the Tigrayans and over 3000 has been detained. And in last two days on Wednesday, they kill 105 Tigrayans, shot them dead. That was also going through the social media was really horrific. 

So then again, that will give like a lot of fight, more like everybody together. it will be the worst ever, even though it might be a solution for them to go there and get things to be sorted. But again, I have a doubt that this, this fire will cease easily or quickly because it might take time. It's not a small city we're talking about. It's a big capital city that has got the most of the population lives there than everywhere else.

 So I don't know how it's going to happen, but again, we can't say a hundred percent sure, but I think they will get there because they have been going really fast since they capture Dessie and another city.

Like yesterday, they have, they were being able to capture another to have full control. So it's like 20 kilometres is not that much to get to Addis. Now, in the next couple of days.

Raquel: Presuming that the coverage will be captured and that will bring down the government. And even though, and you consider that it's possible, there will be a lot more bloodshed, but that is how it could end.

Zemzem: Yes, right now, listen to the Tigrayan has aligned with OLA. That is Oromo rebels, who also believe that the capital city is for them. So they're not just the Tigrayan now they're working together with the Oromo rebels. So then now every city or every place they go in, it's all Oromia place.

So the Oromo are aware of their places. So I think it will be much easier for them to advance now compared to where they come from so far. So I think they will do, they will do.

Raquel:  I am so sorry about everything that is happening. I mean, we do feel your podcast here all the time, but listening to you speak about all of this tragedy, senseless violence, senseless murder, it really is impactful because, you know, when you think about the death of one person in your family, it is heart-breaking and it completely destabilises you as a person.

But in this conversation we've been talking about, you know, the death of thousands of people, 700 people just in one day in a church and the possibility of like hundreds of people dying over the weekend. And when you think about what that does to a family, you know, the death, the loss of one member of a family is, destabilising.

But imagine that in your region where it is almost every family that is guaranteed to have lost a member or had one of their female members raped and abused and I am so sorry. And on behalf of the whole FiLiA team, we are absolutely devastated about this, and we do want to amplify your voice, and we're so grateful that you spoke at the FiLiA conference and you were able to share your experience with our attendees.

Now I want to go back to the second part of the question that I asked early, earlier, from your personal perspective, what would be a resolution for this?

 Zemzem: To end the conflict, right? 

Raquel:  I presume that it will start with you being able to see your mother to know that your mother is healthy to know that she's okay.

Zemzem: Yeah, absolutely. So what I'm hoping is, well, I, as I said, I have planned to work on women and children, but women who are being raped, especially. And I was even successfully got an acceptance from Medi-Aid to supply medical equipment to Tigray region. So I'm trying to also figure out to see, especially those villages. Where all the medical equipment has been looted by the Eritrean government, so the hospitals are empty and I spoke, I had a really good conversation with the CEO of Medi-Aid a charity and they told me, yes, we can give you after the assessment. Again, it's a friend of mine who recommended me to them. So, I was successfully being told that they can deliver the medicals so all I need to do is get doctors who are there so that they can communicate with them, to tell them exactly what they need And also when they provide the equipment, if there is any fault or any changes that needed, then they can also communicate on how to solve the issue, which I was very, very happy that I was able to achieve such a things. And again, as I said, even though I'm going to work on the women's and the children, then again, I will also, if it needed for transportation to those equipment, then I will still need funds as well to raise funds, to be able to ship that medical equipment as well. 

So again, that will be only in villages. The reason I choose the villages is because when access get granted, a lot of people would do some donation. And then of course the government as well, might resolve those big hospitals in the cities, but those in the village, might still suffer to take time, to get budget, to raise for the medical equipment.

 And then transportation will be hard for them to go to the city to get treated. So those are the things that I want to do, for long-term as well. It's not just a short term.  But again, while we’re waiting I wanted to go to Sudan to the refugee camp and help those people who are there. And then again, when they go back safely to Tigray, hopefully when things get settled, then I wanted to also do some project with them that will keep them moving and having hope to do something and to change their life to the better situation.

Raquel: This conflict has completely derailed your life because I imagine that you as a woman, you probably had your hopes and ambitions to do whatever it is that you wanted to do with your life. But now the fact that there is an active conflict and you're seeing tens of thousands of people been murdered and violated, that means that now your energy goes to something that you did not expect, that you will be dedicating your life to.

Zemzem: Yeah. 

Raquel: So this is a genocide. This is a genocide in, we're talking about a conflict in this podcast, in which human rights groups, international human rights groups, and foreign media are banned from the Tigray because the government has prohibited them from recording and documenting what is happening.

We're talking about a conflict in which at least tens of thousands of people have been murdered. They haven't died, they have been murdered. Women and children and elderly people. And boys as well would be murdered as well, indiscriminate murder of innocent people, ethnic cleansing.

And, and you're talking about how you are determined to go in there to help. So I wanted to say that that, I mean, our admiration for you and we're so grateful that women like you exist because it's one thing to hear about like all the government is murdering thousands of people, but then you speak with some of the people who are saying yes, but I want to go in there, even though I know there is a risk to my life, I want to go in there and I want to make things better.

So we're so grateful that there are women like you out there who are courageous and strong and very brave, but also who are taking these extremely difficult challenges on to make things better in the world. 

I'm usually very eloquent, but I feel like I, um, I have no words because this podcast has been a very intense topic I'm  so sorry that I'm so inarticulate right now.

Zemzem: Really it's all right. 

One of the things that makes me so much to do such things is, I went through, as I said earlier, every bit of this, even though it was not a genocide, the Eritrean regime, of what has happened to me, a political reason while I was in Eritrea, I was the military and then I refused to go the military.

 Then I was forced, I was raped twice. I had three miscarriages and I know how my family members actually deny my existence. They didn't accept what has happened to me, even though they know it's out of my control. It's just like, it's a culture and we can't stand seeing you here. All these things, it has been flashbacks in my mind. 

What has happened to me is happening to those women who are there. That is what it tells me. And that is what the power put it in me say, I've got to do something. I can't just sit down and see them going through such things. And some of them, even they take their life because they feel not needed anymore.

I know a lot of people who've been with me had those kinds of things and they took their life away, but I was so strong. I manage, I came to this country and, uh, here I am who I went to be. I thank God for that. So I should be the person to help regardless. You know, I know it's dangerous, but I'm not going to go now, as we can see the worst ever time now in Tigray, there's no access anyway.

My own mum, I can't reach because there is no way I can, but again, but if things settle down a little bit, even though still going to be difficult in terms of bodies are on the floor is still because all the troops who are being killed everywhere.

Even going to witness those things, that those atrocities by yourself to see all everything. It's not easy, but I believe inside me, I can make a change and I have to make it an action to work, to get the change. So that is what it is all about. 

Raquel: How can our audience, FiLiA and FiLiA audience, how can we help?

Zemzem: What I want is first of all, I want everybody, everybody to go and search about Tigray and learn about what has happened there. It's all there. 

You can search on Google and you will see it on CNN report, Amnesty International and all other things that you can be able to see this, the French 24 channel or something like that.

There is a lot of medias out there that is speaking. Even the channel for us also been doing lots of work. So what I will suggest is first go and learn and see both side of what has been happening. 

Of course you will learn how bad it is in Tigray, and then again, create the awareness by any way of any means of way that to be a voice to those voiceless.

That is the main important things for me that I want everybody to be aware of it. I want everybody to find because that is where the base of it that people would think, okay, this has happened. I really feel that I want to help. How do I help these people? You know, because when you see it, you will really feel it.

I feel it a lot because I been going through it. So I know how it makes them  feel. So again, if you do your research, that will bring you forward to think about, okay, this is terrible. I want to do something. How do I get to help? Then if you wanted to help, which is amazing. You can help with different way.

But again, for me, I wanted to do this project to help those women and children, and as well as bringing in some medical equipment and stuff like that, especially for those who didn't make it to skip from the Tigray and they still need medical help, especially the children. I have a GoFundMe link.

And also in the GoFundMe, I have attached a few links for you to learn more about it. 

That fund, I am going to use it first of all, to visit Sudan refugee camp. If access is granted in Tigray before I travel to Sudan, then definitely I will go first to Tigray. The reason for that is at least those people who are in the refugee camp, if they don't have anything, they have one meal a day.

 But those people who are in Tigray, they've been starving, a long time now is, you know, one year of shortage of food. I think their priorities should be focused in Tigray itself, but it's still, if we didn't get access and I'm ready with the fund I will go to Sudan and help those in need in Sudan, as well as with the remain fund, we'll go to Tigray. 

Then we will build a project that a long-term project for those women who are affected, or who are being raped as well as the children for example, for medical, as we say, we bring in the medical things and as well as medication and stuff like that, not just equipment.

 As well as those women we help them how to integrate, how to start their life, normal, and also physically mentally with what they're going through. We can arrange for them how we can get them, people that can talk one-to-one to them and move them from this trauma.

Raquel: Thank you for speaking with us at FiLiA. and it is an honour for us to have you with us at the conference, and it is an honour for us to be able to amplify your voice. We are so deeply sorry for what is happening right now. And everything that you have described is just awful and horrible and all, I just can't get over the fact, all the pain that has been unnecessarily inflicted on the family of tens of thousands of people. And the fact that the lives of tens of thousands of people have been taken from them over something that is unnecessary, that should not be happening. So I really hope that this gets resolved in a peaceful manner, as soon as possible and as FiLiA we will do what we can to raise awareness, which is something that you are very keen on.

We will include the link to the GoFundMe on this podcast. Thank you very much Zemzem for speaking with us.

Zemzem: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And thank you for everybody who listening to our broadcast.

Thank you so much. And I look forward for your help. It means a lot to me and together we are going to make it.