Sally Jackson from FiLiA in conversation with Tua

Sally: I'm really pleased to be joined today by Tua, a woman that's been living in the UK for a little while now, but originally from Cameroon. And we're going to talk to her today about her journey, a life journey really from those early days in Cameroon to where she is now.

This is Sally Jackson, volunteer at FiLiA, and we’re really interested to hear about your story and your journey Tua.  Thanks ever so much for joining us.

 Could we start with you back in Cameroon? Tell us a little bit about your early life and what life was like for you when you were living there.

Tua: Back in Cameroon at age of 13. Well, you want me to talk about my lesbian life or just my whole life? 

Sally: A bit of both.

Tua: It was really, really difficult. It was really difficult. We lived in poverty there was no money to educate us no money to elevate us different like normal children.

There was just me and my junior brother. He passed away.  My brother went and educated himself in witchcraft, which I was told, you know, so a lot of things happened. He was in this chief and apparently he had so much to carry in the village and he was killed and then he initiated some things to my mother as well.

We were living like from hand to mouth just like going to the front before we can have any food. My mother was really, really struggling. And I grew up like a little angel, my mom that never wanted me one day to go anywhere else. 

I was always had to follow her holding my hands.

 I grew up in that way, going to church with my mother.

I had that sensation in me. When I was in primary school, I always liked to have girls around me. I never liked boys.

We had a room a living room, a very old building. My mother would sleep on the floor, we have nothing. Then there was not like killing us, like now.

We had a lamp that we were using instead of electrical or light. We try to do everything during the day before it gets dark. 

I grew up and reached 13 and told my mother and father – I am attracted only to ladies.

Unfortunately for me, my mother wasn't really, really happy and she never wanted things to escalate. And because there was a lady in my village she was killed by the men in the village. She was with a lady and they were kissing, and then she was beaten to death. 

Sally: Just because she was with another woman? 

Tua: They were they were having a relationship a long time. 

Well, my mother always took me to church. They'll pray for me. They'll call or say, they want to take that demon out of me. I want to take that taboo out of me. My mother shouting, crying ‘don't do this to me, you’re my only daughter don’t do this to me’. 

For me, I was looking at my mother like a mad woman, because I was just going with my heart because in my body I feel I was different because I was grown with a masculine body like men. I was growing in a different way. I was not behaving like female, almost like a different child. I was different. I was really, really in a different way, I wasn’t putting on a bra and things like that. Where everybody was like, what is this girl going to be? 

I ended up having a relationship with one lady in the village called Linda and she was killed, which hurt me so much as the asking God to forgive her because she was coming to visit me. She was killed her on the way.

Linda was a bit grown up, she knew a lot of life, more than me. She would take me to a stream. We would go to the bush for our relationship. One day one farmer met us coming back home and told my mum. I was screaming and shouting. It’s a small village that immediately, any alarm goes, everybody would come to my mother who was cooking. Your daughter got ‘taboo’.

My mother was saying - what is happening? She never knew what was really going on. She was screaming as screaming. So I went and hid at Linda’s place. And then I came back in the evening.

My Mother said – How did you manage to really pass all farms and everything.

You know, really, we're not scared. We're just doing our thing.

We not going around and around. 

No, I'll go my way. And my mother called me, my mother gave me the beating of my life with sticks and belt. I had marks and everything. I was crying and crying. One of her friends came as well. 

They said: ‘You bring shame to this village, you're bringing shame. That’s an evil thing you are doing’. The woman said ‘Don’t do this, have a dialogue with your daughter, try to talk to her. Is she going to tell you the truth?’ So don't worry. I know. My mother ask me that ‘How do you feel if a man come to get married to you?’ I said, I don't want him I was crying. I don't want any more. ‘How do you feel if it women come to get married to you?’

I said, which woman? I was not really, really talking to my mother. I don't want to talk to my mother. I'll go my way. I'll get up in the morning, because that never stopped me to go and see Linda, I get up in the morning, and will go and meet Linda. You know, you know when you are in it you can’t stop it. I just leave the house and go and go and go. 

One day a relation from my mother came. They took me to a Church and put me on my knees. They were praying. They were going to put chilli on my pussy. 

If we see you again near any girl, that's what we're going to do to you. I'm going to tie you in the village and all the men in this village will have you. I was crying. If we catch you anymore that is what is going to you. We will bring you out of your mother’s house, put you in front of the village. And all the men in this village will have sex with you and they will put chilli in your pussy and leave you there. The next day, you will never go near a woman. 

 I was so scared. And then when I grow up, Linda had died and I was like, I don't really know what happened. I don't really know. I can't even talk. They met her on the street and killed her.

 I don't know the other lady, girl that she was going out with and the girl, she, the one who came on, told people, Linda visited her, coming back with her and then she was found, but we don't know. I don't know what happened. 

Somebody ran into my mother's house. What happened?

I was behind washing dishes, washing clothes. What happened? I was so angry that I went out. Linda was my love. I was very sad.

I was crying and thinking, you know, I was thinking that if I go out, they going to do the same to me, so I’m thinking don't go out.

Sally: It must have been really fearful.

Tua:  I was thinking one day I’m going to die like that. From that time, I never went out. I was only in the house.

Then one day my mother came, I was talking, holding the pillow, talking to myself “Oh, Linda”. My mother was watching me.

What are you doing? Are you playing with yourself? 

Do you want to bring disgrace to this family? 

What has come to you? What disgrace are you giving to this family? 

My mother was arranging a marriage which I never knew. That was almost the end. 

I went to see a friend, she knew me and Linda. She took advantage saying, Linda is not there. You’re coming to see me, let’s talk and then one day let me just be with you, you’re unhappy now, you can be with me, Linda is no more and will never come back. 

Again, you always play with me there. So we had some nice phone calls with her.

One-day people came to my mother. I was around and I was 15, entering 16. So men came to see my mother. One of my cousins said your mother is arranging for you to get married. 

They were behaving so nice with me. How come all these people being nice with me after all these nasty things that you have done to my life. I said, they want to close my eyes they're going to kill me. I said, not for me, I'm not getting a marriage with anybody. I will go with my heart. That’s what I said. 

Then one day my mother came back with a chief.

My mother said, they'll be asking for my hands in marriage, because I don't want you to die. I don't want you to be like girls on the streets. I want to protect you. So I say to my mother, what are you protecting me for? I'm not going to get married. I'm only going to be in my home.

My mother said: if you don't want, then you're not going to be my daughter. I'm getting old. Anything can happen with my life. I can die tomorrow.

I know because of me they can’t kill you. Your brother is gone. Look at your friends, look at everybody in the village. 

I was having another plan in my head. So what is plan B? 

We have made a lot of connection with all the roads. I mean, it was just like one road to go anywhere.

I try to run to my friend, my girlfriend, we had a sound with how we call each other, she put her finger in her mouth and she blew like a whistle and they all hear her and come around. You'll come around.

Yes, I'll meet her, I’ll follow the sound and meet her. I don't have no phone. Well, that's how we do it by whistling. 

A group of men came and they took me and tied my hands and asked me to put my hands up and gave me so much beating on my body and I cannot even walk in the house. 

They said: next time they see me again – and they show me cut glass and said they will cut my neck off me and put me in the bin or bury me alive.

I was crying.  What have I done? What am I doing? I don’t deserve this, how can I run from this place?

My mother arranged for this marriage now it became the one that had no choice. It wasn't my will. 

This is my worst time.  I have no choice. I was just, you know, it's not about your will. It's not that you want to go there. You are not happy. I wasn't happy at all. I've never lived in that type of house, they have everything. I was happy for what my mother cooked even just vegetables. There they serve you and have a lot of everything.

That was not my life. So it was a bit strange for me. I’ve never had this type of life. I was still a virgin then.

When this man wanted to make love I would cry. I'll try to bite him. And they said, okay, in this one day he tied my leg. He was so strong. I was bleeding. They left me in the room and left. He said. You are my wife you do what I say. You don't do what others say, you do what I say.

I said I don't like men. I like the women. My mum wanted me to get married to you. I don't like men. I like the women you bringing me here. Yeah, it was your time. Whenever I love you we're going to see. 

While staying in that house, like a slave, I have no peace.

And after two years I was pregnant with twins. My mother passed away, which I manage to visit with him. 

Oh, I was pregnant. I said, I'm not going to carry this baby because I was not happy. The way I was pregnant, everything was being done to me. We had a lot of meetings in that house. And I was that little girl. I want you to know all, so much interesting to know, I asked questions.

When he goes out, I always try to see which keys open which doors, you know, see if I can find my way. As the method and it will be difficult, but don't do things that are going to kill you yet. This man is dangerous. If you know this man has a lot of willpower, he knew a lot of people, you know, a lot of everybody in this community.

One day my mother came to see me. She want to always come. I don't want to see her. I heard my mother pass away.

One woman in the village said to my mother why did you give your daughter to that man, a lot of women have gone to that man, do you want your daughter to die?

She is very young. He is almost 40. 

When I was pregnant, he told me if I want to go out of this marriage I'm not going to go with his children. It means I have to abort his children.  

One day he tries to make love with me, I was pregnant 6 months. He forced my head back. He used a herb. He put in between my vagina and I was having pain, my tummy was hurting for two days. I was crying pain. I was on the floor bleeding. My husband left me there and went.

Someone came from my village so can speak my language and said they were going to help me and opened one door. I was crying, crying. 

I don't really know this train that I caught. I was crying. And then I went off. There was a little hill, went off at the road side. A lorry was passing. We waved and he stopped and saw me bleeding and took me, drove me to hospital which took about 45 minutes.

They asked me - what happened? 

I was scared to be talking. I was so scared that my husband would come there and look for me.

They said, don’t be scared, talk.

They gave me a D&C and cleaned me up, took all the baby away which was already dead because of what he put in me.  I was sick and I was so scared being in the hospital for long. I have to escape from the hospital, after the escape I met one lady and she said you can stay with me with this condition. I was ill, I didn't take all my medication because I was scared that maybe they will contact him or he will call and they will take me back. I never wanted to go back. If he does he let me die in the street. 

And then a lady that I can't keep you for a long time, but I have a lady in town called Dwolla. So I went, I was there, like. I was just hiding, I was hiding. There was food and drink and men and girls to sleep with. 

They told me you have not come here to sleep. You have to work. I'm the one getting the money. I said, no, I can't do this because I'm not feeling well. He said, okay, if you're not feeling well, you have to go back home where you came from. We are not here to keep people who are ill. If anything happened to you they’re going to look for us and we can’t keep you, we’re here to make money.

In there I met a man who took me like the prostitute, I had no choice.

He said - I will help you - I explained everything. I explained everything to the man. He took me to the hospital. 

They took control to see what is happening, checking up on everything. So I said, I don’t live in Cameroon I live in Gabon and I work in Gabon. I work with an oil company. They had pity on me. 

They brought me back that day and he said, don't say anything to those girls. They will not say anything because I said I was getting scared. 

He said, I'll take you to the ship and you can go to call it Liberia or Gabon. 

I met a lady there who was the lesbian. We're just, we're just very quiet. So this is what we do.  So you have to wait. The man will take you.

I started on Monday. I can wash the plate if you want. He said we don't give anybody money here so you have to work by selling your body. Oh, I said, I've left trouble and I've come against this, you know, so it was not a good life.

It was not a good life for me. 

I did so much things just to survive my life. 

Glory be to God I met a lady who was called Zobi. She said, they know how you help people.

I don't know what documents she uses. They going to help you. I'm going to help you be, I help you to go to Europe. I was happy, happy.

This woman did everything, all the paper work.

We arrived and then I was locked up in the house in London. She was the one she booked everything then told me, give me a passport. Now this is a business. You work for me and pay me. You have to pay me his type of money. If I have to give up 3 million, 3 million is like 4,000 pounds. Yes. I have to give it to her. 

I said, I don't have any money. The only money I came with like 50 pounds in this country I don't have anyone. She said to me, if I don’t pay they will send me back. So I was crying and saying please don’t send me back. If you know what I've gone through my life. If I go back, you know, it’s not going to be good for me, you know. 

Not knowing that she had another plan in her head to do what you do.

So I met so many girls they said don't fight with her. Just be quiet and just watch maybe one day things will be better. I was thinking I go to police.

I can't even go out, I just came. So she gave an order she didn’t allow me to go out. Some girls could go out. When a man comes he will sleep with her there.

One day a man came to me. I said I’m not sleeping any more, I am not. You can only kill me. I am not. All of them join me to go. She said you all going to work or you will get beaten. 

Like a baby I cry. I cry.  

And then one lady just said to me, if you want to survive here you have to. If not, they're going to be beating you like every day.

You don't know this they will take you to other parts of the country, maybe the world you want to die? I said I don't want you to die. 

Then behave yourself.  Maybe you find a way tomorrow maybe all of us will find a way to escape.

I was so stubborn. because what I went through in Cameroon. It's like, I've come to meet the same thing again in a country that she told me I will get a good life. I was comparing thinking; what good life? Is it a good life you brought me? Is it worth it? You've put me here. So what have you brought me here for?

I was there for at least 8 months. Zobi wasn’t there she would just come and give the orders. 

One day a man took me out. You don’t even know where they’re taking you. A car would just be arranged for you.

When I went with that man I was crying. I was crying. The man called the manager and said this young girl she's crying. I don't want this.

I asked him to help me. I said to them, what if you don't leave me there. I can go way. But you don’t know anywhere You know, I don't want you to die, let me take you back. They brought me back. When I came back Zobi was screaming at me. What are you doing? You're spoiling our business. 

I had in mind go to the police. I never knew how to start or go there. I never even knew you can call 999. I never even knew anything about this country. I was naive. Didn't know anything, everything had been controlled in my life. So I was like, I didn't know anything. I just worked on their decision. 

One day a lady called me and picked me up and said she’s going to the market I came to know it was Peckham. I just disappeared. I was crying. I was crying.

One lady met me her name was Amina. She said you're okay. Follow me. I said I need help. It was winter time then I had no jacket. The lady said I'm from Leicester. Anyway, so I'll help you work. I was shivering. She gave me a pullover to wear. 

The woman said tell me what happened. I said if you want to help me show me any police station. She said don't go to the police station, they will send you back to your country. So I know what I have gone through in Cameroon so I'll be so scared.

She took me to Leicester. I wanted shelter and I wanted a place to live. When I went to Leicester, she made me a cup of tea and a shower. They were looking at me; like somebody you don't know is having a shower. Saying oh, you have a nice boobs.

I would like, oh, thank you. I was so scared. I said, maybe she wanted to kill me.

She said to me, don't worry. I'll give you one pyjama and one nice track suit and some food. I ate. I was telling her, I never wanted to say to anybody. I never knew who she was and never wanted to come out.

Later on she said are you okay? Do you have a boyfriend? I said, no, I don't have.

I asked  – do you have a husband? She said, no I have a girlfriend who comes here only at the weekends, don't worry because she stays with me while she's here. 

I’m a bit tired and very ill and I’m cold. 

They made me a bed. I was so scared. One man came. I don't know who. So I was like, oh my God, are they going to kill me in this house? You know, so many plots were in my head. Is there any police station near here? I want to go there for myself. I want tell them what I have gone through.

They said - what police station are you looking for? If you go out, you go back to Cameroon. She was getting a bit harder with me that evening. If you go I'll send you back to London where you belong. I was so scared. I cannot sleep. My eyes were open. You know, you are sleeping, but you knew you're not sleeping.

I don't know what was happening. I don't know her. You know, somebody you don't never met in your life is coming and watching you in the shower? I don't know who is she I was like; it was a bit strange for me. 

And then I heard that she was talking on the phone at night to her partner: I brought a very lovely girl going to spend a night in love with me.

 Now that she is romancing me, took advantage of me, kissing me, touching me, you know, affection. I did all this. Not because I really wanted, but I had no choice. I give my body to her like that. I have no choice.

On Friday her partner came and I was sleeping in the living room. Well, then one day in the afternoon, they brought a mattress. I sleep in the living room we become like friends talking, you know, said I should sleep there. She opened my leg. Her partner put her hand inside of my leg. She was holding my boob.

Oh God. I said a lot of things, you know? So they would give me a shelter. And that was a shelter. They have used it in my life until one day she said to me, she's going to America. I don't know what problems she had. 

They let me small room living there. I don't know what happened for me. She looked for me a job I would be like a carer. I don't know what documents she used. 

And then one day, I was working and one of my friends, I said, I really want to go to the police, say something about my life. 

She said - Do you know they're going to send you back?

I never knew the law.

And then she said -  just stay quiet where you are.

And I met a lovely girl called Caroline, and fell in love with her. And then she had a man which I never knew. We had a separation then. 

In 2010 I was caught by the immigration. From them, my general immigration started.

Then they came to where I was working. I'm just going to do a spot check. Maybe somebody called, I don't really know. Unfortunately, that day I was there at work on, then they took me, I was locked up in a cell for three nights. And then after that I was taken to the crown court. They judged me and gave me six months the prison.

I seek asylum there. I didn't mention my family because I never knew you can claim asylum because of your sexuality

And I met a lot of people on there. One lady was from the charities in London, which I can call you for that. I contact them and I have no phone. just call the prison number and they came and visited me and get me phones, which when I came out now I was sent to detention. Now I came out. 

They gave me a place in Swansea and Cardiff. 

In Cardiff six women were sharing one room, big women, different tribes speaking different languages, making a lot of noise. 

It was horrible, horrible, horrible. You don't know where you'd be going live. 

They would come to my bed, just to talk to me and just, we just have our own bed. I felt that she wanted to clue us in. I've gone through my life. You know, I kept myself to myself. 

And then when I went to court and my case was refused. That's in 2010 in July and they asked me to leave immediately, leave your house, the house I was living in.

So they stopped my support and the little money they’re giving me they stopped everything.

And then I went to one woman I met in Swansea who tried to get in contact with charities in London. And she said, you know, the charity Notre Dame. She gave me a place to sleep. Her brother came and wanted to take advantage of me. So I was crying and screaming the neighbourhood to come.

They said you should've been doing this to her. You know, I was really, really upset. I saw your brother getting his trousers out.

The neighbours heard me shouting. I opened the door and they will call me I was talking to a neighbour. She's a very good neighbour. I will just wait for you to come and then I have to go somewhere. She called the charity now and I told them I was crying. They have to spend some money on my account, they put me on a coach, I came to London. 

There I met a lot of all these charities. 

And then after I just connect myself, all of the charities, which was really helpful to me. I didn't have no case in the Home Office.

I was empty because my case was refused and they would lock me up again.

I need a lawyer to take my case and then explain that this is my sexuality. That's a good case. We'll see don't worry about it.

You have people in this country that they can't come out because of one or two reasons. So don't worry about it. They'll help you.

I was there waiting and they gave me one solicitor, which they tried to build up my case with it one year, two years, five years. The Home Office sent my files. We were writing and writing -

They can’t just get my case like that without getting the whole history, the whole, my history, that’s how they do.

Then in 2012 they are getting to my case, give them the time because they need to study my case. So they put me back on reporting.  

I was going to London Bridge right there. I was reporting from 2019 every Monday, every week. And then I left. I said, no, this lady says, she has problem that are mental problem.

You can't be allowing her going and sign every week, if I don’t I'm gone back to my country.

I said Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The I was detained, I called the support worker at nine o'clock in the night they released me. 

They did it for no good reason.

I was in between, my charities are now they accept to give me a one-month process of signing. So I go each month to sign, every month, every month, every month, every month. Now they have the medical report for myself. 

I went to visit a friend in 2013 in Forest Gate. Where I was staying the UK Border Force came and checked everybody’s documents looking for one person. We don’t know who it is. They took me to Yarl’s Wood.

It was the worst time.  I'll never, ever allow anybody to be put in that place. It's not even a place for human beings. At least for me is a place, but the way we were treated. They never even cared. 

In 2013 I went there, it was my second time. 

I cried. I cried. Don’t do this to me. Allow this to me. My report was almost about finished. I was there for one month, two months, three months, three and a half months, torture.

They took me to place they called Keisha because I was not eating because I wasn't eating and they kept me on suicide watch. What I told him one day I’m going to kill myself. A woman came and visited me and they heard me say that. They have to call and say, if anything happens we're going to sue you people. So Sophie came right there. A journalist was right there to get my statement.

They gave me some befrienders numbers. I was crying. They have to come. 

They took everything for my, everything, my soap. Anything that is liquid at, you know, that somebody can drink. Yes. I was having suicidal thoughts for two months everywhere I go.

Sally:  When you were in, thankfully it's closed now, we were protesting for a long time to get it closed. And when you were actually in there, were you aware of the protest at all? 

Tua: Yes, they came, they came one time, I was called by the women from Refugee Women. And they were talking and said to her, about the Home Office. They don't want us to use our phone. We have to hide our phones and I said, I don't have any power on my phone. They took my battery. 

I was telling them what I've been going through they said don't worry. We are fighting for your people. We are here. We are fighting for this shut down. So don't worry. You're not alone. We are behind you people. So that gave me a little bit of hope and you know and courage not to just stay there and sit quiet. 

One day, I was in my room. I came from the shower and the officer burst into my room without knocking.  I was naked. 

I came out naked. I said, what you want to see? I'm trying to say, you do have to do this you will have respect, no matter what, we need that dignity of women, we need our dignity and respect as a woman.

 You came into the room without even knocking. Are you happy to see my nakedness? I came out, everybody was shouting. Everybody came out behind me. I walked through the officer naked. And they came and they held my hand, put me in handcuffs. I said, well, I said, no. He came into my room. I say he can never deny that all the women saw. So we are not slave. We are not young women.  We come from different parts of the world. We are here without any papers, you don't have any right to be doing that to me, you came to deliver a message. You never knocked on the room. You never know. You just opened the door. You never know.

 He goes back in to see what you want to see. It means that the story that we are hearing, you sleep with girls here you lie and that you get them out of detention. That’s a true story. I’m going to make a report about this. And they call the officer in.

After that incident, four weeks, my injunction went past and they took me off the house I was released from Yarl’s Wood. Yeah. Yeah. 

And that was the end of Yarl’s Wood in my life. I came back. I didn't sign Home Office. I said, I'm not going to sign on, now to get to recover.

I then waited for the Home office to get my appeal.

I spoke to Kate about my sexuality. She said it's a very, very good case. If you put it nicely, if you have some people, LGBTQ people, they can help you and you win your case. The country that you're coming from Cameroon, tell the history of your life and what you're going through in life. So that was a bit scared again. 

One day I went to Church. I mean, I was going to my Church. I see a girl she wanted to hook up with me.

A woman said in a loud voice – are you a lesbian?

 Nobody knows me. There's been, nobody knew. 

What have I done? So what I say, mind your own business.

And everybody was looking at me. They would call me after Church. The Pastor wants to see you after Church, and I say Pastor what is happening? He said, well, you know, we can’t accept lesbian in this dominion. So either you stop what you’re doing or you don't come anymore because it's not good. Our Church doesn’t accept this. I leave with a heavy heart. 

I was crying in my room and she said - what's a problem. So I have to come out. I came out, I came out in 2017, openly now.

 Now this is me.

I'll help you I'll link you with a lot of LGBT group, which I was linked with women, lesbians and rainbow sisters. The sell-out clubs and links to this LGBT groups women told me - don't worry you’re coming out now. It's not like you just come out of yesterday. You don't worry about it we're going to help you.

It’s a big journey for you. Don't worry about the time coming out. And they helped me throughout.

My case was refused they don't believe me because I don't have a picture. I've never been to lesbian club. Everybody was laughing. 

Sally: It's so ridiculous. Isn't it? How they qualify whether or not you're gay or lesbian?

Tua: Yeah, I thought they don't believe me. I'm just making it up. Well, I've never shown them. I haven't met a lot of lesbians, I haven’t been to a lesbian bar or anything, so they don't believe me. Everybody was angry. 

Then one day there was a function, all lesbian and gay in central London.

Someone invited me. Then I went and told her.

She said what? I'll give you pictures. Oh,

I've never been to any of those clubs I don't even know where they are. 

So I don't know why they're saying, oh, these, you know, so she said, okay, we’ll come to your court.

At my appeal, all of them came to court. It was like 150 people who came out to support me. 

The place did not have room where everybody can sit, they're going to look for a room and then they have to adjourn this case. And there must be a barrister who was really good. 

A lot of stuff that, a lot of mistakes and a lot of things that they never sent to the judge. He said I can't go on this without having all the four or five binders. Ok I will give you an adjournment until end of April. 

Without this file and then I will give my judgment in a different way.

My solicitor was very good.

They accepted my trafficking.

My file was so big in November 2019.

I won the case and this is me now.

Sally: And it's just so lovely to hear of all the support that Kate and, and women listening will know Kate Smurthwaite. She went the extra mile for you.

Tua: Kate was so marvellous. Up till now she is still supporting me. I've never seen this before. You don't need to have a family who is sister, she is my sister. My white sister. My British sister has been there. I met her in Women for Refugee Women. She was a teacher there. What is something strange about you?

Are you a lesbian? Or they would just say, don't worry, don't worry. And she called people.

Sally: It strikes me. There's a real kind of like balance here between the enormous trauma that you've experienced throughout your life and the just plain shameful way in which the Home Office has treated you and treat the case as it's gone through.

But also, and I think in darkness we see the light more clearly, but the support that you've had from the organisations like Helene Bamba, like from Women for Refugee Women. 

Tua: Helene Bamba been there, they would have been there LGBT group or also. They have been there. They have been working with me to see this journey come to a success story. 

Sally: And I think sometimes when people perhaps donate money to these causes because they want to be supportive and let you know, they want to help, but they may not realise actually how much difference it makes to women like you that are fighting the system. And it's their support that helps you get through it 

Tua: I fought and the journey wasn't easy. I fought sometime I would say to myself, am I going to leave this journey? I'll ask myself question. Are you going to let these people to beat you up? I said, no, I will fight. No matter how many years, 15 years, I will fight. I will fight. 

In my first court case I was screaming, shouting things over. They were looking at me. They were looking as if they just said you don’t intimidate her, allow her to talk to you, she have the right to talk. You don't intimidate her or you don't tell her she's not a lesbian. 

He just told him to tell her, I've just told you she is. And she is now what she said and bringing all these people here I don't think she is telling a lie.

Sally: Absolutely. And looking forward now are you finally settled in and got your status. So what, what are your hopes for the future now? 

Tua: Actually I'm trying to get to uni next year to study mental health illness.

And then I'm trying to apply just to get some small job in the health care system. I don't work that much. It just for like two weeks in a month. Yeah. Then come back home. That's what I'm trying to do and then Breaking Barriers has been helpful with my uni application. They have helped me on my personal statement is a lovely girl called Maya. She's helped me so much, so much, so much, which I'm really, really, really, really, happy for me. 

Sally: We wish you all the very best Tua. And after all that's happened in your life so far, we hope that the rest of your life is, is filled with happiness and joy.

For sure. And thank you so much for sharing your story with us, because I think the reality women in and countries where, you know, lesbianism, isn't accepted what they go through, women who have been forced into prostitution, women, who've been trafficked women fighting the immigration system, the reality of what that feels like and what that looks like.

It's so good to, to make that real for our listeners to know what the reality of that is. So we really appreciate you taking the time to share with us. You take good care of yourself Tua. it's been just absolutely lovely to speak to you today. Thank you.