Sara: Welcome to this very special podcast. This is our 100th episode, and to mark the occasion, we are meeting some of the amazing women behind FiLiA and going behind the scenes of this brilliant feminist charity. My name is Sara and I volunteer as podcast coordinator. I am completely delighted to be joined today by some of the amazing women who make FiLiA happen.

 Could I please ask you all to introduce yourselves? 

 Lisa-Marie: So, hi everybody. I'm Lisa-Marie and I'm one of the founders of FiLiA, I'm a trustee, and I'm the CEO. 

 Julian: Hi, I'm Julian, I'm one of the other founders of FiLiA. I also work in law as my day job. I'm a former trustee of FiLiA, and it's really nice to be here with the founders and current trustees.

 Sally: Hi, I'm Sally. Again, another trustee, I'm Chair of the Trustees and have been a volunteer of FiLiA for, I think it's about six years now. 

 Kruti: Hi, I'm Kruti, also a trustee with FiLiA, and the Chief Financial Officer. I do a little bit on policy and government engagement, and also starting to think about what we can do to bring a focus on issues affecting Black, Asian, and minority ethnic women specifically. 

 Raquel: Hello everyone. My name is Raquel, I am a writer, a researcher, and campaigner, from the Dominican Republic. I am on the Board of Trustee at FiLiA, and I'm also the spokeswoman since November 25th, 2019. 

 Sara: Wonderful. Well, thank you all for joining us today. Julian and Lisa-Marie, you organised the first FiLiA conference together. Could you tell us a bit about why you decided to do that? 

 Julian: So the Feminism in London conference had run in 2008, ‘9, and ‘10. It was organised by the London Feminist Network, and I think Lisa-Marie and I had both been to at least one of those Feminism in London conferences. And that then ceased to exist in its then form.

 And we thought it was a bit of a shame that there wasn't a conference and when somebody suggested reviving it that just seemed to be something that the feminist scene needed, you know, that, sort of, in-person connection that we had both enjoyed so very much and so that was how we came to be involved.

 Lisa-Marie: First of all, I want to say ‘thank you’ to the women who organised the Feminism in London conferences. As Julian said, they ran from 2008, I think, to 2010. And without a doubt, that was a day - the one that I went to in 2009, it was the conference, it just changed my life completely. And I want to also say ‘thank you’ to the women who've gifted their time to organise and speak at all the FiLiA conferences since.

 What that conference did for me was it made absolute sense of my life. That one day, and I say categorically, that was the most important day of my life. And what it's given me is a lifelong passion for the Women’s Liberation Movement. And I think importantly, a deep respect for those women who preceded us, many of whom are still very active in the movement.

 So that day I committed to learning about our history, which is so often kept from us, and I committed also to bringing new women into the movement, and that’s a passion that stayed with me, I think we've been very successful with that. I think 62% of attendees at FiLiA last year, it was their first feminist conference. This is brilliant.

So as Julian said, the conferences didn't continue. We picked them up. I'm eternally grateful to the women who started them. I'm very glad that we did. We were frightened to death. We were excited. I think we were politically extremely naïve, without funding, but we were determined that this must go ahead because we saw the potential, and we had absolutely no idea then where it would go.

 We just knew that it needed doing, and I think I’d take this opportunity to encourage women now to get involved. Any women who are listening to this, make time to learn about feminism, meet feminists, get involved in any way you can, make mistakes. My goodness, we've made tons of them. But find your niche and find your way of making a contribution to the movement.

 And we've been going now, I think, for eight years or something like that, and I think it gets stronger and stronger every year. I love it and I wouldn't change it for the world.

 Julian: It was a very steep learning curve; I can say that. I think when we started it back up, and we, sort of, met up and we had a chat, we thought, “well, you know, how hard can it be? You book a room, you book a bunch of speakers, then everybody will just turn up like magnets to a sort of, to a feminist north, they will come.”

 And it turns out it takes quite a lot more than that. And so we've very much been learning as we go, but it's been huge amounts of fun and learning and some chaos, but also just the opportunity to be involved in what I think is very much something that is in the middle of the Women’s Liberation Movement at the moment has been wonderful. 

 Sara: Thank you. Could you tell us a little bit about how that first conference that you organised went? 

 Julian: It was brilliant, I think. We started off, as I say, with very little idea of how to put on a feminist conference or indeed any conference, and it just worked. We had nearly a thousand people there, including speakers, so it was an enormous success in terms of attendance. But we also had all these different topics, we had topics including acid attacks, women in prison opposition to militarised violence.

There was, there really was a feeling that there was something there available to every woman who came. And the feedback was excellent. So that will remain with me as a day where we tried something a bit new, we tried something, you know, we couldn't be certain before we started doing it that this would be a success, and it just felt so right. The energy there was wonderful. 

 Lisa-Marie: Okay, so I'm going to rely on Julian's brilliant memory for how the first conference was, because I just can't remember much about it other than it was a huge emotional rollercoaster. Busy, busy, busy, busy, absolutely exhausted for days. There are two things that I do remember sitting down afterwards and going, “fuck, I am never doing that again,” and “oh my God, that was so good, we have to do this again.”

 I think one of the things I want to mention is the art. We have speakers, we have workshops, we have stalls, we also have art. And we have art from established women artists, but we also have art from women who've been through the prison system, women who've been through domestic abuse, women who've been through substance misuse.

 But one of the stories that I remember most is very, very dear to me actually, is: a woman set up an art class, I think it was every Thursday evening for a year, for women who'd been through substance misuse, who were in recovery to come and create their art. And a woman got permission to come out of prison and go to these art classes and then go back into prison.

 And by the time the FiLiA conference came around, she was out of prison. She came with her parents, and her art was displayed, and it was the most beautiful moment. So I think to reflect what Julian says, there is so much happening at FiLiA that reflects so much of what women do, you know, work done by women and for women in many different forms. And… knackered but wouldn't change it for the world.

 Sara: So to our incredible trustees, Sally, Kruti, and Raquel, how did you first get involved with FiLiA, and what made you want to be a part of this?

 Sally: So, for me, it was quite simple. I'd heard about, there was this feminist conference going along, and that sounded quite interesting to me. So I went along, I think to be, if I'm really honest with you, with not huge expectations, but just thinking, “there's going to be a couple of interesting things here.” And I was completely blown away.

 Just everything about it, the speakers, the quality of the speakers. I learned so much in one day. The way that the workshops were organised, so that there was such a variety of themes that were there. I work in the violence against women field, so I'm used to going conferences that are usually, you know, the topics are all around one issue. But to have such variety was something very new for me.

 But if I'm honest, probably the best bit for me, and the bit that made me just tingle, was looking up from the balcony and seeing all these women, just chatting, and little groups, younger women with older women, women of different colours and races.

 It was just like, “this is what feminism needs, we need women coming together like this.” So I contacted Lisa-Marie afterwards and said, “can I play please? Can I get involved?” And she very graciously said yes. 

 Kruti: So mine was slightly different, in that I came across FiLiA in, kind of, my learning about feminism in the course of reading and looking into organisations around 2016, ‘17.

 I think I just liked what FiLiA stood for. I liked that it felt like a community, and that it was like a grassroots organisation and growing, and, sort of, got involved after that. But my first conference wasn't actually until 2017 and, like Sally, I was completely blown away by everything.

 I learnt so much new stuff. I heard from women I would never have otherwise come across. I felt… I thought the atmosphere was just electric. It was that feeling that Sally said, of just that sisterhood and just so many women in one place.

 I actually then had to step away from FiLiA because I had my daughter, my first child, and so took a step back from everything for a year, but then came back at the end of 2018, determined to, sort of, help create a better world for my daughter through FiLiA and then was asked to be a trustee late last… 

 Raquel: I got involved with FiLiA through a very dear friend of mine named May, and she is the founder of the Feminist Student Society at the University of Bristol, ‘Women Talk Back’.

 So she invited me to the FiLiA conference, and I was a little hesitant to go, because I thought feminist conferences were very abstract and theoretical, but she was very energised. She was very keen about this conference. So I went and I remember feeling a very heavy energy, because what women were talking about, the speakers and their experiences, and their work, it is very heavy.

 All the topics are very heavy, but the atmosphere among women was very uplifting. It was very positive. It was very much about women wanting to connect with other women. And that's just something that really struck me. And then after that…

 I mean, I went to the conference and I was very excited about it, but then after that I got an email, and FiLiA had invited me to be a speaker to speak about my work on men who pay for sex. And I was over the moon and I was like, “oh my God, how did they even know who I am?”

 And I went to the conference as a speaker and it was wonderful. And then I got invited to be a spokeswoman for the organisation. And then I was like, “oh my God, how do they even know who I am?” I was just… so I was like pinching myself.

 And then they asked me to be a member of the Board of Trustees, and I'm still like, “are these women even…?” But I'm just, like, so excited that the energy's very much, “do you want to volunteer your skills to be with us on this, on this issue, on this journey?”

 And I just feel very grateful for that, for this number of opportunities. Because oftentimes I feel, I think we need more of that. More of a welcoming environment of asking women, “okay, so what do you want to bring to the table? You have skills, you have energy. Let's work together.”

 And I'm just really grateful to be a part of it.

 Sara: So, Julian, can you tell us some of the highlights from the early days of FiLiA? 

 Julian: I think the highlights from the early days was the energy and enthusiasm of the team, which we've managed to continue, I think, through to having a much, much larger organising committee.

 But back in those early days, there were far fewer of us, very unsure of exactly what we were doing, but just having the most wonderful fun, making sure that we did it and collaborating to get that done.

 I think from the early days FiLiA has always recognised that we wanted our conference to speak to women across the spectrum of experience. So the Older Feminist Network spoke, I think, at every… of those early conferences. As Lisa-Marie has already mentioned, the women in prison organisations and the amazing Holloway quilt that was on display.

 And we knew that we wanted a very broad range of topics, so not just the very academic ones, but also ones that spoke to more of a grassroots audience. And realising also that we needed children's provision, because otherwise you're just providing a conference for women in their twenties, or those with supportive partners, which then obviously means that a large number of women can't come.

 And the energy of the children with the children's workshops, I thought was also just a really good thing, to have that connection between sometimes quite small children, you know, babes in arms, up to young kids, you know, under 11, primary age. Then for teenagers to be there as well. And for them to be listening and learning from the Older Feminists Network, you know, those connections across generations, and across a spectrum of experience on race and disability. We've had speakers on secularism in BME communities, which was absolutely fascinating, for example.

 Though, watching those connections forming and building and becoming something more has always been very much a highlight from FiLiA for me. And seeing that begin to develop in the early days, and then being able to recognise it and say, “that, that is what we want to take forward with this, that is what we need to keep doing,”

 You know, it was quite trial and error in the early days and finding the bits that have worked so incredibly well and saying, “yes, yes, yes, that's what we need to do, again, more of that.” That was just such an absolute joy to be involved with. 

 Sara: Amazing. And can you tell us about some of the trickier things that you've had to manage?

 Lisa-Marie: Yeah, it's a very good question. I want to also say that I think that FiLiA has worked because of the quality and amount of activism being done by women, for women. That's fundamental to why we've managed to succeed and continue.

 So, looking at the difficulties, this has to be answered within the broader context. So historically, it's always been the case that women who want to speak out or organise against their oppression have been attacked. And what I cite frequently is, what is seen as the first example of a legal code in recorded history, “and we find, if a woman speaks disrespectfully to a man, her mouth she'll be crushed with a fired brick and that brick will be hung at the main gate.”

 Now, this was 2,350BC. We all know about the witch hunts, and it really isn't difficult to find current examples of men organising against women speaking out. And immense amounts of energy go into maintaining systems of power. And this is why men react so venomously, because women's liberation poses a significant threat to the status quo.

 So yes, we've had death threats. Yes, we've had rape threats. We've had long rambling letters from academics telling us the prostitution really is liberating for young women. And we had a credible bomb threat. Now this guy, hello to your listening, fuck off. He had a circumcision that went wrong, and of course it's all feminists’ fault.

 And this is really important because what he's trying to do, is what we see day in and day out, is that deflection from the real issues onto feminists. For example, in the current debate about sex-based rights.

 And on top of all of this, you also find that most of the feminist work is done on a voluntary basis. So finding the time to put something like FiLiA on is a huge issue. We've worked it out, and it was eight and a half, approximately eight and a half thousand woman-hours per year, to put FiLiA on.

 But we do it, and we persist in doing it in spite of the threats, in spite of the difficulties, because we absolutely believe that what we are doing is worth doing and plays a significant part.

 Sally: Yeah, it’s kind of like the ongoing issue, isn't it? I was going to say boring, but it's not boring, because to do FiLiA does take some money, and we try really, really hard to keep the ticket prices as low as possible, so that there's not profit made out of FiLiA at all.

 But of course, the result of that is, several times as we've come up to the conference, we've really been unclear whether or not we're going to have enough money in the bank to pay the bills that the conference causes. And so those nail-biting couple of months around October and shortly afterwards, as different bits of funding are coming in, has always been something for us to be really concerned.

 And we've usually managed to come in more or less on target, sometimes a couple of hundred pounds over, sometimes a bit less, and women have been really generous in making sure that we can continue, and that we go on to provide another year. But I think one of the things that makes me smile is literally every year I've been asked, “so how much do you get paid for doing this, and are you staying in the nice hotel, with all the speakers that have been paid, and et cetera?”

 And just for people to realise that we’re all volunteers, and we kind of pay our way cause it's really important to us, that FiLiA happens. And also the, you know, the brilliant speakers that we are so fortunate to get, to share their experience and their expertise, often make their own way there. Sometimes if it needs funding, they're the ones that organise that funding to enable them to get there.

 So, FiLiA itself is a huge act of generosity on behalf of the women's movement. And I think that's something that we should be proud of enabling, but at the same time, kind of recognise that, you know, there is a cost and when you pay your ticket, and really importantly when you buy your solidarity ticket, you are really making a huge difference.

 Julian: Can I add there to what Lisa-Marie said, about seeing a continuity from patriarchy many centuries ago, many years ago, to protests against feminists today? We've seen this for many years. So for example, in 1908, Mary Ward, who was Chair of the National Women's Anti-Suffrage League said, “meanwhile, good brains and skilled hands are being diverted from women's real tasks to this barren agitation for equal rights with men.”

 And I think that's something that we've also encountered as a challenge, is the suggestion that women's real tasks should be something other than liberation for women. That we should be working to please men, or that there is some, sort of, real task that is inherent to women, and this ‘barren agitation’ idea. Now that was over a hundred years ago now, and yet we are still getting that type of pushback against women who speak in favour of their own liberation.

 Sara: Thank you. So I think that leads us on to, I suppose this might be a slightly redundant question now, cause we've, sort of, answered it, but the question of why you carry on with FiLiA, given all these challenges?

 Lisa-Marie: Currently we are experiencing a moment of global feminist consciousness raising. This is enormously significant and this consciousness raising, I believe, will be followed by the feminist revolution. 

 FiLiA has a small but very significant part to play in that story, the story of the Women’s Liberation Movement, by creating new connections between women, and providing that opportunity to come together, to learn from each other, to organise, and to get really involved in activism.

 Sally: I think I'd say that it's really necessary for me on a very selfish level. We live in a world constantly now where we recognise the oppression of women, be that here in the UK with, you know, looking at the court system and the basic decriminalisation of rape, or with our sisters across the world that are experiencing oppression in, sadly, a huge and diverse number of ways.

 The only way that we can feel that we have any part in ending it, is to be part of it. So for me, being involved with FiLiA is a way that I can contribute in some small way and feel along, with my sisters, that together there is some hope to end that oppression, and finally smash that bloody patriarchy, and get to a world where women really are liberated.

 Raquel: I would say that I often like to fantasise about, sort of, doing farming in some rural town, like, “oh, I'm just going to quit all of this and I'm just going to, you know, do something completely removed, I'm going to study, like, animals, or something.”

 But that's just kind of like a running joke in my life because in reality, I don't think that I could be doing any other thing. I don't think I would be doing anything else other than just keep carrying on. I think that for a while I was, personally, I felt like I was waiting for a healing or for, you know, feminist leaders to, sort of, step in and they would be the ones to fight all these battles.

 And it just, like, slowly, it just dawned on me that it's like, “no, Raquel, you know, you have to, the person you are looking for is you,” and that, sort of, lit a fire in my chest, that made me realise that I couldn't just put my hopes for a better future for women and girls, on other women and girls.

 You know, I had to do my bit and it feels so much better to do it than to wallow and then to, sort of, pretend that you don't know that it's happening, all of these oppressions are happening. I sympathise with the moments when you feel like you just can't carry on.

 You know, it's like 100%, and that's me, like maybe 40% of the time, but you feel so much better the 60% of the time when you're, like, in the middle of it. You know? It's like, fighting people and, like, arguing with people and, like, doing your research, doing your work, writing your articles, doing your campaigning.

 Like, you know, in the movement of things, when you feel like you're actually doing something, that trumps the feelings of despair and hopelessness. So I think that I try to cling to that. 

 Kruti: Yeah, I think you women have said it perfectly. It's necessary. We do it because we have to do it. It doesn't really feel like there's a choice in it. While women are oppressed, we're going to do whatever we can to contribute to the liberation of us all.

 For this movement, it feels like every voice and every action matters, and the more of us that there are fighting, the better it is for us all. And sometimes it doesn't feel like I'm doing anything, what with motherhood, and family, and work, and juggling all of that. But being a part of FiLiA, it allows me to contribute in whatever way I can and feel part of that bigger movement to liberate us all.

 Sara: Excellent. Well, thank you for carrying on the work, obviously, and for all that you do. I'm going to ask now about FiLiA's mission, which includes three clear statements. Please can you tell us a little bit more about these?

 Lisa-Marie: Okay, so I've got, oh my goodness, like a year and a half. It was a really painful year and a half, to be fair, going round and round in circles trying to articulate exactly what we were trying to do, and then I turned-

 We were all at a trustee meeting, at the weekend, in a play park actually. And I turned around and went, “we are doing it wrong.” And it was just this sudden moment of clarity, “we are doing this wrong, if it's this difficult, we're doing it wrong.”

 There are focused organisations that have all the detail covered, so those organisations fighting against FGM, for example, against domestic abuse, for equal pay, and so on. They have words, they have, they're able to articulate exactly what they're doing, exactly what we need, what is it that FiLiA is actually here to do? And we worked hard and we got it down to three things.

 So FiLiA is here to do three things: building sisterhood and solidarity locally, nationally, and internationally; amplifying the voices of women, particularly those less often heard or purposefully silenced; and finally, the third thing that FiLiA is here to do is to defend women's human rights. And that, simply, is what the mission of FiLiA is. 

 Sally: Just to expand a bit on sisterhood and solidarity; it's at the heart of everything that we do, and fundamental to the Women’s Liberation Movement.

 We look at that both in our local work in the areas where we're holding the conference, working with local women's groups to see the issues that were important to them, in that area, so that we can ensure that these issues are raised at the conference. We ask about any local campaigns that we may be able to support and share more widely.

 Also, we have sisterhood internationally with some of the work we've done with sisters across the world. Thinking for example, of our sisters in Rojava, and some of the work we've been able to do with them, our sisters from Latin America that have been able to come over to the conference. Knowing that the struggles that were important to them, however many thousands of miles away from us they are, are also important to us here in the UK. We stand in solidarity with them.

 The connections we make are important. So for instance, through FiLiA, women who have exited the sex industry have been able to gather together and meet. In a world where lesbians are increasingly persecuted, to be able to facilitate a space for lesbians to meet and organise is extremely important.

 Women have told us that FiLiA is a place where they feel safe. They feel they could be free to discuss issues important to them, without feeling they have to be careful what they said or looking over their shoulder for fear of losing their job. It's a place to talk with like-minded women, look for solutions together.

 When discussing this earlier, Raquel talked of a network of courage, which is a really beautiful way to sum up how women who are involved with FiLiA in some way come together and build this network. And with the courage we have together, we can make changes, and we can do this because as a sisterhood, we have each other's backs.

 This is something that's really important to FiLiA. FiLiA is a supportive place to be. Women may sometimes need to take some time out because life happens, and women have many challenges to deal with in their lives, but we support women through these issues, whatever's going on because that’s sisterhood.

 Raquel: Yes. And just to add to what Sally was saying, when it comes to amplifying the voices of women, those who are purposefully silenced and often not heard, that includes on an international level. Because if you think about it, it's like, women are half of the world's population. It is impossible for us to be knowledgeable of every single issue that is happening to every single woman out there.

 So that is why it's very important for us to amplify the voices and the work of the women who are local to their communities, who are fighting for other women and girls rights within their communities. Like as Sally was saying, that includes the voices of women who have survived, who have exited the sex trade, you know, the sex industry, because those voices are deliberately silenced in a patriarchal culture.

 So it is very important to have feminist organisations that are amplifying those voices, so that other women, who may not share that experience, know that there's a different side to the conversation that is being deliberately obscured.

 And also, just, it's important for women to know what other women are doing in other parts of the country, because oftentimes what we find is that women sometimes are fighting similar battles, but also they're mainly fighting similar battles in a different way, or with a different connotation, and being aware of how we're all connected.

 I mean, women, we have all the differences that are humanly possible, but the one thing that we share is our sex. To be aware of what other women are going through helps build that solidarity between and among women, so here is a place where this can take place, where this happens. And as Sally was saying, where women can know that we're not going to police their language, we're not going to police the words that they use.

 And a way that we amplify the voices of women is through our blogs, and through our podcasts, and through the use of technology, so that our audience, the people who read our blog, the people who listen to our podcast, that they also know about the work of all the fantastic feminist women who are around the world fighting these battles with us.

 And just a last point, is that there's a certain kind of solidarity that comes from knowing that the attacks of women… in the UK are also the same attacks that women are confronting in Peru, or that they are confronting in Spain, or that they are confronting in South Korea. You know, the sense of, “no, we're not alone.”

 Because oftentimes in social justice circles, it can feel very… you can feel a part of a movement, but personally can be very isolating. So knowing that there's other women out there who are also fighting these battles can be interesting, and empowering, and inspiring. So I think that that's an important component as well.

 Lisa-Marie: So, with regards to amplifying voices, it's particularly important to hear from those less often heard or purposefully silenced. And a couple of examples for me are women exiting the sex trade, who speak about the fact that prostitution is violence against women.

 We know that around 90% of women in prostitution want to leave, so why are we not hearing about this? Why are politicians not doing everything to support those who want to leave to exit? Why are they not stopping the paid rape of women? And we hear from women who've exited the sex trade at FiLiA. 

 Women defending our sex-based rights, it is absolutely horrific what is being done to women currently around this topic, who simply want to maintain the law as it is, with basic protections for single-sex spaces. And we have politicians and we have activists working to prevent women from even meeting to speak about this important topic. Why? 

 And at FiLiA these topics are talked about, as well as many varied other topics that affect women globally. And I want to also mention that FiLiA provides the opportunity for young and upcoming feminists to speak. For example, radical girls, for example, Raquel. These are politically astute women. They're remarkably eloquent. And these are women… will be increasingly important to listen to in the future and have a vital role to play in the global feminist movement.

 And I think somebody already mentioned but adding the FiLiA guest blogs, the podcasts, relatively recently actually, has allowed us to amplify the voices of even more women. And again, just a nod to our incredible podcast team who've made this happen. 

 Julian: And the third of the aims that we have as FiLiA is defending women's human rights. Human rights frameworks are relatively recent in terms of legislation for them, certainly in the UK.

 We have the Human Rights Act, 1998, we have the European Convention on Human Rights, that is from just after the Second World War, and of course the UN declaration as well. But when we look at these frameworks, they are legal, they are the subject of academic discussion, but they're also extremely useful for women seeking to defend our human rights. And we are seeing attacks on women's human rights globally.

 So, for example, women's reproductive rights, continued attack on those. And of course in the UK we're also seeing renewed efforts, and this has been over a decade or more, to repeal the Human Rights Act and simply get rid of those. And we need those legal avenues to pursue rights for women.

 We can't leave it exclusively to the good will of politicians, because we know from the last hundred or more years that where we rely on a predominantly male parliament to take it upon themselves to ensure that women's human rights are respected, it just never seems to quite get to the top of the list.

 Whereas if you can take these matters to court, you can say, “hang on, there is a breach of the public sector equality duty here, there is a breach of women's human rights here.” There are some wonderful feminist lawyers who are working in this field.

 And using that human rights framework to be able to describe what rights it is that we are seeking to maintain is, we think, crucial to actually pursuing them. So having that framework and also recognising how it can be used to defend women's human rights. 

 Sara: So how do you organise a feminist conference that covers a range of issues in a challenging, nuanced, and educational way, while taking firm stances on women's rights as a campaigning organisation? 

 Julian: I think this is a really fascinating question, because I think it is one of the enduringly sexist things about women's organising and women's politics, that you would never expect to go to a party-political conference that is dominated by men, you would never expect to go to even a non-political conference dominated by men, and for everybody to completely agree with each other on everything.

 You know, that is not a political movement, that is some form of cult. And women's politics are no different. And for us to be told, “well, you know, everybody should agree, and if you are not in complete agreement, then you are infighting, you are bitching, you are cat-fighting,” these are sexist things aimed at women who engage in political discussion.

 So at FiLiA we have our role as a campaigning organisation, but we also have a conference where you will hear discussion, not group think. You will hear analysis from different perspectives. You will hear a human rights-based analysis. You will hear from people you might vehemently agree with every word they say. You might hear from people, from women, where you think, “actually, I disagree with everything they say,” but the point is that it will be thought provoking, it will be well reasoned, and you take from it what you will.

 So I think that centring our organisation as having our own views when we are campaigning, but also as a platform to learn, and discuss, and debate, and have those discussions works quite well. I don’t know what others' views on that are.

 Lisa-Marie: I think Julian's made some really relevant points there, and it's been tough. You know, feminism isn't easy, it's tough, otherwise we'd have done it and succeeded, you know, hundreds of years ago.

 There are intense discussions around politics. There are red lines that we have, that we absolutely will not budge on, and there's also room for women to discuss and debate.

 “How do we get to where we need to get, how do we organise, how do we react to certain things that are going on in the political world?” And it's a vibrant space. And you are all welcome to come and join us. 

 Sara: Women obviously know us for the conference. Tell us a little bit about the work during the year to make that happen.

 Lisa-Marie: So throughout the year, oh my goodness, so much goes on. So the main thing is connecting with new women and organisations, finding speakers locally, right through to internationally. 

 And I think with moving the conference to a different city each year - thank you Kathleen Barry, for that - we have the opportunity to meet new groups, who then inform what happens at FiLiA as well as take part, as speakers, as artists, as volunteers, and we learn so much from them.

 Women Asylum Seekers Together, the Lesbian Immigration Support Group, the Women's Health Network, and dozens of others, they really have enriched our understanding of local activism and contributed, I think, to making FiLiA a better and more relevant event.

 And if we look internationally, in the last couple of weeks we've connected with women in Russia who have taken upon themselves to write the femicide report, cause the state was failing to do so. We've spoken with women in Kenya. Sally has been interviewing women in Kakuma refugee camp who are fighting against appalling mistreatment there.

 So I think that these are, I hope that these are long-term connections and friendships that will develop. So for example, the women who work to highlight non-state torture, we met them years ago, via FiLiA. And I anticipate that we will be in each other's lives, always, supporting each other's work, building and strengthening these feminist networks. 

 It sounds organic, it sounds haphazard, but I think once the decision is made to do this, the rest, as I say, is just logistics. Lots and lots of logistics. 

 Sally: I talked earlier about sisterhood and solidarity, and one of the ways in which we build that sisterhood within FiLiA is to take some time and have some weekends away as a group.

 And this is in some ways downtime in that, yes, we do have quite a lot of fun on the weekends when we're all together, but also an opportunity for us to, you know, look at some themes, do some work around certain issues.

 One of the first ones that we did, we were really fortunate to have Kathleen Barry talk us through, “what is consciousness raising and how can that make a difference to the feminist movement?” And since that day, not only has Kathleen been part and parcel of FiLiA, but consciousness raising has been part and parcel of FiLiA.

 And I think that's helped different women, different volunteers within the group to recognise the variety and the diversity of skills. So being that we work in women's rights, it's not unusual that we'll sometimes get requests from all sorts of different areas, and we may not know how to help.

 But the thing about FiLiA is, we usually know a woman who does, and through that sisterhood and through those skills, we're able to usually speak to someone who'd be able to help another sister out. And I think that, as I say, that kind of building of sisterhood within the team, as well as without, is really important.

 Kruti: So one of the first things that we do after each conference is to go through the evaluations that many of our lovely attendees fill in. And that's, like, a great opportunity to understand the impact we're having on individual women.

 And we received some fantastic feedback about how it makes women feel and how much it means to them, and it's also a way for us to identify what we can do better next time. And we share that learning with the team, and we keep that in mind all year long, as we are planning for the next conference.

 But I just want to share some feedback that we got from our last conference, in 2019, in Bradford. So some comments that we received of our impact include things like women learning so much, being grateful for the radical political space, talking about the high standard speakers, feeling empowered and connected and uplifted.

 A sex trade survivor actually said that it was the first time in their recovery journey that they felt that way and felt accepted, so it was really nice to hear. We hear from an older second wave radical feminist who said that they hadn't been to a women's conference in decades, but it was FiLiA that brought her back to feminism, just talking about all the inspiring women they heard, or situations that they've learned about.

 How harrowing it is, but also the enormous hope that it gives women. Wonderful to see working class women represented and hearing their stories. What a wide range of ages, and nationalities, and races, and backgrounds. Lots of talk about how it, sort of, makes women feel empowered, and wanting to change the world, and recharging their activist batteries.

 And then some of the things that we, you know, are learning that we want to do better next time and which we're working on includes some of the logistical things like, you know, sending confirmations of sessions booked, and sending the program in advance, and clearer signposting.

 Some feedback on, kind of, how the sessions are run. So more discussion. Women want more interactive sessions. More, sort of, networking and socialising sessions.

 We've learned from kind of demographic questions that there weren't many women under the age of 24 attending, so not many young women. So we'd love to see and engage with more young women at our conferences in future, and for our podcasts and our blogs, and we're really happy to be working with Radical Girls now. We also know that the majority of attendees are white, so we're doing more outreach.

 And we have been asked to, and we would love to, film the conference and have a record of our conferences, but we haven't yet been able to find funding to do so.

 And we also learn about things that women really value and things that we definitely shouldn't change. So like topmost is always the variety and diversity of speakers and topics, and hearing women's perspectives that we don't often hear, women of colour, working class women, the efforts that we've taken to platform more Black and minoritised women, and supporting women from around the world to be here and listen to. 

 How accessible it is, so including things like the solidarity tickets, the concession tickets, sort of speech-to-text, our childcare that we provide. The fact that we are moving around the UK has been really welcomed because it's a fantastic way of building the movement and reaching women.

 And finally, the party on Saturday night, where one piece of feedback that we got was, “it was lovely to dance at my first woman-only disco since the 1980s, I'd forgotten the joy of dancing free of the male gaze,” which is one of my favourite pieces of feedback.

 So, we learn a lot from our conferences and we take that learning back through, like, our organising throughout the year.

 And one of the ways that we do that organising is through having fortnightly team meetings, and then as we get closer weekly team meetings, and that includes, and that, sort of, gives everyone time to, sort of, discuss and update on their respective roles for their companies. 

 Raquel: And I also wanted to touch on some of the other aspects of FiLiA. We’ve all mentioned that there's the conference, there are the podcasts, the blogs, the movement building in the local communities.

 And we also have some, what you could call, like, educational sessions for the team, in which we speak with the women, who are experts in different topics, speak with the FiLiA team. So that's a way to, sort of, constantly keep ourselves updated with what's actually happening to women on the ground.

 And we also have a vast variety of speakers who come to the conferences. I mean, I remember at the last FiLiA conference we had women who were dealing with some very difficult issues like the human trafficking of women and girls in Argentina, and they have these very… an organisation which focuses on that issue. And one of the organisers of that organisation came to FiLiA and participated and spoke about their experiences dealing with that issue. And we also had women whose work focuses on religion fundamentalism and how that impacts women, and violence against women.

 So it's like we, at the conference, we try to host a variety of topics to highlight the different types that women are facing, which is very broad and vast, obviously.

 We also have volunteer roles and within those volunteers’ roles, like, women have the possibility of, sort of, crafting their own role, that they don't feel like it's something that is imposed.

 And I think that's something that I really value from it, is that it gives women the liberty, not only to adjust… I mean if you want to, if you get involved with a feminist organisation like FiLiA, then we get the sense that you have the passion for it. But sometimes women don't have a lot of time, so they don't have a lot of capacity, and it's like, we understand.

 So we try to be very welcoming to, like, “okay, the time that you can donate with us, we're very grateful for that.” And you get to, sort of, craft your own role when you join the team. And now we have about 72 volunteers, which is very awesome, and they get to create their own niche of what it is that they want to have, they want to join us. 

 We were having a conversation last week about how sometimes, and I myself have had this before, sort of, like, well, “I know that I… I know I'm smart, but like, I don't feel like I have any real practical skills,” and that can feel kind of debilitating. But when you join us as a volunteer, then like you come in with the skills that you have, and you flourish.

 We welcome you in, and you see women flourish and, sort of, home in on those skills that they bring in. And, like, for example, I never thought that I could be a spokeswoman, but then I figure that I can actually write some really good statements, so that's been wonderful to witness. 

 Sara: Wonderful. And I'm just going to add in a little bit of a line about podcasts here. And that's basically just to say that I have had the honour of being podcast coordinator now for, I don't know, like a year and a half, almost two years. And the thing that I really like about the podcast in particular is that it is an audio-only format.

 And I really like the fact that women, we have a variety of different interviewers, who bring their own skills and their own point of view and their own kind of voices to the podcasts. And then we have our amazing guests, who donate their time to be on these podcasts.

 But what I really like is just that it literally is amplifying the actual voices of women in conversation. And one of the things that's most frightening, apparently, is women talking together without any men around. So I like the fact that the podcasts are another way of doing that, and another way of, kind of, listening in on these conversations.

 So thank you to everyone who gets involved with the podcast.

 Julian: And then in terms of other work that's done during the year, there’s also the stuff that isn't quite so visible, in terms of completing consultations. So, writing submissions to the UN when they have a call for submissions, and to the different subcommittees offered by government when there's an opportunity to chime in there.

 So that type of drafting and submissions has also been going on. You can find those on our website as well, if you're interested to know what we've been saying in terms of those statements and publications. 

 Sara: Great. Why is it important for women to gather together like this, whether virtually or in person?

 Raquel: It's important for women to connect with other women who are concerned about the rights of women, the lives of women, the experiences of women and girls. Because otherwise it could feel very… you could feel very alone.

 And I don't want to discount the moments when all of us feel despondent, or that you feel like you don't really have any fight in you, because I think that if we didn't feel it, then there would be something wrong with us. You know, it's part of the human experience… to actually feel it.

 So I don't want to discard that, because it plays a role in every feminist life. But, when you connect with other women who also care about making lives better, and the future better, for us and the humans who are going to come after us, then that energises you. 

 And the fire that has been lit within you, that made you say, “this is my fight, and I will get involved,” when you connect with other women, it's like they also have that fire with them. And if yours has been kind of running out, then they can help set a spark it back up, and they can keep it ablaze.

 So I think that, I mean, and we are human beings. Meeting with other women, connecting with other women, listening to other women, and doing what we're doing right now because… will help carry on, you know… and how do you take care of yourself, like that part of the process. And that teaches us how to take better care of ourselves. So in essence, the answer to your question is, it humanises us and it energises us. 

 Kruti: So we know that it's important to women, basically. We know from things like the evaluation, and just talking to women, that it’s important to their wellbeing, it's important for their sense of belonging and community, and it's important for their feeling of safety and freedom.

 So, you know, women have said to us things like, being at the conference was the first time in a long time that they didn't feel alone and isolated. They loved being with like-minded people, and not having to look over their shoulder when they're speaking. They loved the freedom to hear women talk honestly about their lives, and about their work, and they feel accepted in this space.

 And we also know that women want to be together. They want to connect with each other. They want to build sisterhood and solidarity. They want to hear from other women and learn from them. They want to work with them.

 So, there was a great quote from one evaluation, which said that FiLiA is like RadFem Glastonbury. You get to see all your mates, you get to meet the living legends, and then it takes three weeks to recover. Yeah.

 When we ask women what they most enjoy about the conference, they say things like, hearing from and meeting so many inspiring women, literally being in a space with over 700 women, you know, first-hand contact with international activists, women speaking up for women, and just the brilliant discussions that they've had with other women. 

 And we know that actually, from women meeting at our conferences, that they then form groups and they then go on and build on that and work from that, and ‘activist’ from meeting each other at our conferences. 

 Lisa-Marie: So, why is it important for women to gather virtually or in person? I firmly believe that any oppressed group must have the right to both name their oppression and to organise against it, and we've mentioned before women have been oppressed for thousands, thousands of years, and this silencing, as a tactic of the patriarchy, continues to be used with vast amounts of propaganda targeted, I would say, particularly at younger women

 Any time that women are being targeted, any time that we are being silenced and attacked, it really is time to do, what is sometimes hard work, hard thinking, to figure out what is actually going on here. And I think that FiLiA provides an opportunity for women to take a couple of days out of our extremely busy lives, to gather and to learn and to participate and to organise.

 And I really want to encourage women to speak out and to gather, be it consciousness raising groups, be it events, big or small, be it book groups, be it learning about Women’s Liberation Movement history, which is critical. They are not going to teach you this in school. You have to actively seek it out.

 And we're incredibly fortunate that second wave feminists are still with us. Many of them have spoken at a FiLiA conference. And I would encourage young women to listen, to learn about our history, recent and distant, and to get involved, to find your niche, to find your voice.

 So why is it important? It's the only way that we are going to manage to take down patriarchy. So it's vital that we do this whenever and wherever we can. We have so much to learn.

 Yeah, I just, I can't find the words to describe how important it is that we do this, that we do gather in spite of everything, everything that's put in the way of us managing to actually do that. 

 Sara: So you changed the name from ‘Feminism in London' to FiLiA when we became a charity in 2015. What's the meaning behind FiLiA? 

 Julian: So we were Feminism in London which was the name of the conference previously. And then as we started to grow, we were having a lot more international and national speakers, and we made the decision to start taking the conference outside London as well.

 So Feminism in London no longer really suited it as a name. We made the application to become a charity in 2015 and that application was granted. We were the first conference organising group to be awarded charitable status, so I'm really, really proud of that. And the name was a nod to Elisa who had been organising the arts side of things, as she had called it FiLiArts.

 We thought FiLiA was a particularly good name. It does have significance, because FiLiA is, as well as retaining that FiL of Feminism in London, it also means daughter in Latin. And that's significant, because it gives that sense of continuity that we are both the daughters of our feminist foremothers, but also we are doing this for our own daughters.

 And it provided us obviously with that, sort of, change as we moved outside London, and we weren't just Feminism in London, we were feminism all over the place. And with an increasing reach of speakers from around the world. 

 Sara: We seem to be seeing a resurgence of the Women’s Liberation Movement. What type of organisation do you see FiLiA as and where does it fit in?

 Lisa-Marie: I do want to say that, again, reiterating something that I touched on earlier, that this is the first time ever in human history, that women are able to connect across the globe so easily.

 There is this global consciousness raising. There are new anti-femicide groups setting up. There is a visible increase in women protesting, and a realisation, I believe, that the lies we've been told about sexual liberation through pornography and prostitution are just that, they are lies. And all of this is happening all of the time at the moment.

 And I think in the midst of this, somewhere sits FiLiA. And we're trying to piece everything together, and we're trying to provide a space that is organised by women for women, so that we can find our way through this and continue the work that has been done by our foremothers, as Julian said earlier, so that our daughters and our granddaughters may live free.

 Kruti: Yes, exactly. I think FiLiA is providing the space for women on must to critique the societies we live in and the things that have been forced upon us, and question whether this is what women and girls really want. And ‘no’ is a short answer to that. 

 Raquel: And I would just like to add that, perhaps it's because we have more access to information and technology now that we are more aware of how connected and how concerted the effort to… to perpetuate violence against women…

 But I would say that in the midst of such a virulent backlash, because the backlash that we are witnessing against women and girls is brutal. In the middle of that, I see FiLiA as a very alive organisation that is not… It's not about us saying, “oh, we have this title within this organisation,” or, it's not about any… thing.

 It's about making sure that we have a voice, that we have a presence, that we do the best that we can to play a role in pushing back against that backlash. And the way that we have figured out is, how to do that is, well, we can have a conference, we can have our podcast, we can have blogs, we can have consciousness racing, we can have movement building, these are the things that we are doing, but we are making a stand against that backlash.

 So I see FiLiA as saying, “I am present, I am here, and I object to all of that,” and in the large scheme of things, it could be interpreted as maybe not being a large enough impact. But if you think about it, it's like, think about every single woman who's going to listen to a podcast, or every single woman who's going to come to a conference.

 That woman is going to go to her workplace. She's going to go to her family, she's going to go to her circle of friends, and she's going to talk about what she just saw, what she just heard, what she just learned. She's going to talk with her network. You know, she, every single woman, who interacts with FiLiA becomes a multiplier.

 So I think that the question for us as the FiLiA team is, what kind of message do we want to put out there? What kind of impact do we want to have? Because every single woman who intersects with FiLiA at one point is going to multiply that message. 

 Lisa-Marie: That was absolutely astonishing. And it's not a way I've thought of it before, about the multiplying thing.

 I think you're absolutely right about the backlash. I think it is here, it will continue to be here. I think as our voices get stronger, as our connections get stronger, it will increase against us, that backlash. And I think what Pragna Patel says, which struck me, is that we fight on many fronts and we have to fight on many fronts.

 And I think that what FiLiA does is provide an opportunity for women to come and hear and see and speak with and learn from the women who are fighting on so many fronts, and successfully, and to join in as well. But I think that idea of a multiplier, I think that's, that's absolutely fantastic, Raquel. Yeah. 

 Raquel: Thank you. And it's kinda bizarre because it's like maybe before you had these, sort of, usual suspects, that were against the advancements of women's rights. 

 But now we're in a moment in which even the actors whom you would assume would be against the sex trade, because it's just an industry where violence against women is committed regularly, even the actors in the system, the institutions, the organisations who you would assume should be on the side of women, sometimes those are the actors who are promoting those industries. Sometimes those are the organisations who are actually advocating for things that are harmful to women.

 So it's just, that's one of the things that is so bewildering about the backlash that we are going through right now, that the usual scripts of who are the misogyny, that has been kind of flipped. And I think that in the middle of that, it is crucial, not only that we make the connections that we are making with other women, locally, nationally, and internationally, but also that we are very conscious about what kind of message we are putting out there.

 Because it's, for example, and not to get to deep into a topic, but for example, if we state no position on the sex trade, if we have no position on prostitution, then that's not neutral. You know, because the sex trade is still out there committing harm against women and girls. So it is very important that we actually raise our voices and say, as an organisation, we are abolitionist of the sex trade.

 Lisa-Marie: Absolutely agree. Those red lines, to be really firm on those red lines. There is, there is no, no debate there at all.

 Sara: Well, thank you. FiLiA has grown from a one-day conference to a two-day event, with podcasts and blogs throughout the year. What does the future look like for FiLiA? 

 Lisa-Marie: FiLiA is very fortunate. We were invited to apply for funding for a local project, based on the fact that FiLiA moves to a new city every single year, we were invited to apply for, and I'm delighted to say that we won, funding to participate in a local project that will be grassroots driven.

 It will be driven by the local women who are working in the community for women, and it will very much be about education, skills, and so watch this space because that's very exciting, new projects that FiLiA’s getting involved in, and I'm very grateful to the funders for inviting us to apply for this. And yeah, please just watch what's going to happen for that in the future. 

 Sally: To thinking about FiLiA in the future, moving on from what Lisa-Marie was saying about funding. As I said earlier, that's a constant battle for us, and we do every now and then buy a FiLiA lottery ticket, but so far we haven't scooped the millions.

 But hopefully, going forward, we will get some significant funding, so that we could continue and expand the work that we're doing. But I think one of the things we're really careful about is funding that doesn't in any way compromise our values and our ethos, because that's much more important to us than any pound coins coming into the organisation.

 But, you know, we get asked sometimes to help other countries develop a FiLiA conference. Now, we'd love to be able to have the capacity to do that, but currently, you know, that's not something that we could facilitate. But the work that we're doing in building and strengthening links between women across countries and in different countries, I think is something that can only continue, and can only be built on.

 Because that's the work that I think we will see the, you know, the most fruit coming from. 

 Lisa-Marie: We've had women, we are so lucky, we've had women from 49 countries throughout the world come and speak at FiLiA. That will expand over the coming years without a doubt. We're seeing that already. And so an increase in numbers of connections between women and depth of connection between women, I think, and that building of solidarity between us, that that's how I see the future.

 Sara: Is no one going to say world domination by females? 

 Raquel: But that's kind of assumed!

 Sally: I think we should say that obviously the patriarchy is always really worried that women gathering means that they're actually going to try and take over the world. News flash: it's true. 

 Raquel: And actually I think… we had so much, like, momentum going on and then the coronavirus hit, we had to postpone the conference.

 But when we are able to meet again, it's just going to be like this force of nature. All of these women who have been so eager to meet together. It's like the energy, the energy is going to be fantastic. And yes, I think that we're going to be well on our way to taking this whole thing down.

 Lisa-Marie: Agreed. And I think something that's contributed to that is the phenomenal way that women have organised during the pandemic. The numbers, I mean, some days I have seven webinars in a day, you know, learning. Women adapted immediately.

 And so there has been this huge amount of learning that possibly wouldn't have happened in such a short space of time, thanks to women organising and adapting in that way. And you're absolutely right, Raquel. You know, once this is all over, that's it. We're on it. All of us.

 Raquel: And it has allowed for… new ways for women to meet. Like, for example, I was a part of this seminar, and if we had been operating under the idea that we have to meet together in person, we wouldn't have come together because it was, like, women from Chile, women from Argentina, women from Mexico, we here in the Dominican Republic.

 It's like it allows all of us to come into… space and a lot of women who will not have been present as a… community were able to join us online. So it has also opened up opportunities which we maybe would not have tapped into unless the pandemic had hit.

 Lisa-Marie: And I think at Portsmouth as well, the venue holds 2,000. We're hoping for 2,000 women to descend upon Portmouth. We already have women from Russia who are coming to talk about the Femicide report. We know that women are coming from India. We know that women are coming from Kenya, and women will be there from Portsmouth. And there's that local national, international connection right there and yes, 2,000. 2,000, this is going to be phenomenal.

 Raquel: 2,000 energised, angry, inspired women is going to be the best. 

 Sara: Absolutely, I can't wait, it's going to be amazing.

 So on that note, what are some of the things that have been most memorable for you in FiLiA over the years?

 Julian: For me, some of the most memorable parts of FiLiA have been securing charitable status, realising that, you know, this is something that we could become more than ‘just a conference’, if I can put it that way. We could also have that campaigning role and charitable role as well.

 But also some of the networks we have met with, some of the speakers that we've had. I can't possibly name all of them, because there are just so many more than we possibly could go through. But one group that I've been particularly delighted to have met and worked with is Lesbian Immigration Support Group.

 And another speaker who is just - two of our speakers actually, who are particularly brilliant, I think, are Fiona Broadfoot and Kendra Houseman, and I would never have met either of them but for FiLiA.

 So I think that those are particularly memorable and standout moments, but really it feels almost unfair to have to try to find some standout moments for those years of being involved as a trustee, because there were so many and there were, you know, it does seem like I'm trying to find gems in amongst gems there for me. 

 Kruti: For me, as a relative newbie, I think, to feminism and FiLiA, one of my best times was when we had a FiLiA weekend at Horton in 2019, and it was basically just a brilliant weekend of firsts for me.

 So, staying in a woman only house, discussing feminism till the early hours of the morning, going to my first women's only disco, and I just absolutely loved that weekend. I felt so welcomed. I felt really connected to women, and free and liberated in a way that I hadn't really felt before.

 And then the conferences, I've only been to two, actually. But for me, at the 2017 conference, Fiona Broadfoot was, like, just the standout. She opened my eyes to another world and I just thought she was the bravest, most amazing woman.

 And at the 2019 conference, women like Sam Walsh, Miss Yankee, Charlie Evans, I think it's the first-hand testimonials that really stay with me. And the memorial march that we had in the 2019 conference as well. Just incredibly moving. And also the amazing security team actually, at the 2019 conference. I think it might have been, possibly, the first time where I felt like we really just don't need men for anything. So that was quite nice feeling.

 And then within, sort of, FiLiA, like within our team, I also just wanted to highlight our education sessions that we've talked about. So again, there were two that really stayed with me. We had Judy Bindel talk to us about surrogacy, and we had the CAME Women and Girls Development Organisation talk to us about breast ironing.

 And again, these were just, you know, really new topics to me and again, opened my eyes to another world. So I think the things that really stayed with me are when I'm learning so much through FiLiA. Yeah. 

 Raquel: Yes. A memorable FiLiA moment for me. Well, I have to, and the first one I would say, was the feminist dance floor. Because it's just, there's something about being able to just, like, be silly and dance with other women, and not have to worry about men looking at you, or you don't have to be appealing to men. You don't have to check your clothes.

 You know, it's like a completely male-gaze-free zone. And I had never experienced that, in my life, you know, especially in such a large gathering. So the dance floor was just - it was freeing. It was a very free experience for me. So that was memorable.

 And apart from that, and this is a little bit more sombre, we did a commemoration of the women who we have lost to the sex trade, to male violence in the sex trade. And we did a little walk, and we had some flowers and we did some, sort of, moments, to honour all of those women who we lost to male violence in the sex trade in the UK.

 And there was a woman in the audience, it was like a crowd had gathered in Bradford, and a woman in the audience, she was part of that organisation in Argentina that I mentioned before, which is about mothers of women and girls who have been trafficked and quote unquote disappeared, but essentially who had been trafficked into the sex trade.

 … organisation and in the middle of this very sort of sad and depressing moment, cause it's a sad and depressing moment. She said, and she didn't speak English, but she said, “I want to do a performative dance.” And she's kind of maybe middle aged woman. Very, very thin. And I remember her having very long hair. And she just does performative dance.

 So when she said it, I was like, “right now?” Like, in this moment people are crying, very emotive. And I had no idea how that would play out. She just, sort of, moved. And she started, sort of, doing this very powerful dance in honour of all of those women, not just the names that we mentioned in that moment.

 For all of the women who we have lost to male violence… including the ones that she worked for in her organisation in Argentina. And these women were crying, and women were holding each other. And it was one of those moments that really brings home the importance of the work that we all try to do, but also the importance of women coming together to fight against it.

 So that was something that really stuck with me, because the last thing that I would have expected, in this moment when we're waiting out the names of women who have, whose life has been, have been stolen by male violence, the last thing that I would have thought that could go well is like, a dance.

 But actually that's what happened, because a woman came up with this very creative concept and it, sort of, energised and snapped all of us out of this, sort of, numbness. It, sort of, it just tied everything together. I felt that it tied everything together, so that will always speak with me. 

 Lisa-Marie: So for me, it’s a mix of things that I'll go through quickly in the interest of time, but new women coming into the movement, those new women who walk through that door, very bravely to hear about what is, to find out what all of this is about. And they have that eureka moment. I experienced that eureka moment 10 years ago. It a really important moment.

 And watching volunteers flourish through the education sessions that we have, and through the conference. And 72 lesbians, I have to say that, 72 lesbians joined together at FiLiA and created a new national lesbian group. And there's a new group as well, that came from FiLiA, of 40 survivors of the sex trade, an international group.

 There are regional feminist groups that have come from FiLiA, and seeing women on social media or in real life who met at FiLiA who are now working together, supporting each other, having each other's backs.

 And I would reiterate the Memorial March as well, that other women have said, about 300 women, -ish, turning up, laying down flowers, reading out the names of women murdered in the sex trade by men. And that was a powerful moment and we're going to continue with those marches. The one next year is for women who have been murdered, femicide.

 And FiLiA's not going anywhere. I mean, listening to this podcast now, we've not going anywhere. We have to keep doing this. It’s too important to stop. 

 Sally: I think it's really hard, isn't it? Trying to think, cause there's so many memories and so many highlights. I was thinking on a very personal level about some of the wonderful women that I have met, and I would now call friends. And that would never have happened without being involved in FiLiA.

 And I'm thinking of some of our brilliant volunteers that have come along. I'm thinking of some of our speakers, and some of the women that just attend, and are in that, kind of, like, that feminist network and just absolutely wonderful, beautiful women. Without FiLiA I wouldn't have had the pleasure of their company, and I have a feeling they're going to be my life for a very long time, and I'm extremely thankful for that.

 I think from the conference point of view, again it's really difficult with speakers, there are so many brilliant speakers, but I remember the WAST choir singing, and that just made me tingle. The power of those women's voices, knowing the journeys that those women had been on before they came to FiLiA. And WAST is the Women Asylum Seekers Together.

 Thinking of Hibo Wardere, and her talk around being a survivor of FGM, and you could have heard a pin drop in that room. But not only was it eloquent and poignant, she's bloody hilarious as well. You know, she also had us absolutely rocking the aisles because you know, one hell of a phenomenal woman. 

 If anyone was at Bradford last year, they I’m sure will all remember the young Rohingya woman, who just found it incredibly hard to speak about the losses that had occurred to her, and what she'd been subjected to in her journey coming to the UK, and you felt the entire room of, whatever it was, nearly a thousand women, holding her and giving her the strength to continue. And that was such a powerful, powerful thing to be part of.

 So there's, in some ways, more than more than the individuals, it's the sum total and the feeling and the being part of it that's always the memory for me. And there's things that I know I will take to my grave, and they will make me cry and they will make me giggle.

 And it's all because of FiLiA, and I love it for it.

 Sara: Beautiful. What would you say to a woman who might be interested in feminism, or getting involved in some aspect of women's rights, but is perhaps feeling a little bit intimidated? 

 Kruti: So, to women who might be interested in feminism but are perhaps feeling intimidated, I just wanted to say that I am constantly learning, and constantly adjusting my position, and you shouldn't at all feel like you have to know everything about feminism, but things like our conferences, our podcasts, and blogs are absolutely wonderful educational tools.

 And then the other thing I did just want to say is that it is really hard and sometimes we hear really heavy stuff. And it's sometimes quite hard to deal with or know how to respond to things. And so if you are a relative newbie, just remember to take care of yourself and pace yourself. 

 Raquel: I would say I would say join us. Join us with your energy, your doubts, your questions, your experiences. There's no… The women's movement is made of women who care about other women. So that's all you need to be with us. 

 I think it can be very discouraging. Sometimes it can be very - the patriarchy is dehumanising by definition, but I think when you are connected with other women, who are also fighting for each other, then that makes the burden a little bit lesser. You know, it takes some of that weight, which we all feel is on our shoulders. It makes us realise that it's not just on our shoulders.

 And as I was saying earlier before, it's like, sometimes you think that you just don't have the skills that you need, the skills that you need for feminism. You know, it's like I remember when I started, I was just sort of… first I thought that I was just, like, from my personal experience, first I thought that I was just smart, cause I had no practical… skills.

 And then I started doing shelter work, working… for women who have exited male violence. And then I realised like, “oh, I can do that. There's something practical that I can do. I can be present with women and their children, and they are going through something very difficult.” And then from that I realised, “well actually I can, all these thoughts that I have in my head, I can build on that, and I can maybe write,” and then I started writing.

 And, you know, you just sort of - but that was always because there was a woman who believed in me and encouraged me. So it's like, join us and we will help you, and encourage you, and try to see the light that maybe you yourself do not see.

 Because sometimes we don't see our own light, and it's only through, like, the encouragement sometimes of other women that we realise actually my voice is needed. And my voice is important, so come join us. Please be with us.

 We're not going to police your words. We're not going to police your thoughts. We're not going to make you feel guilty for the words and ideas that you have. Just be free with us. 

 Sara: That sounds absolutely beautiful. On that note, actually, I think this leads perfectly into our next question.

 What else can women do to support FiLiA?

 Lisa-Marie: I want to highlight that we've recently started the Friends of FiLiA scheme. This was in recognition of the fact that we do need some more funds to come in.

 We need to support women to attend FiLiA who otherwise cannot. We need to pay for a creche so that mothers can come. We need to pay for speech-to-text so our disabled sisters can attend. And so we started the Friends of FiLiA scheme, so consider joining that if you are able to do so.

 It starts from one pound a month, and we got an email saying, well, we have a number of emails actually saying, “how much will one pound a month give? Will it really contribute anything? Does it really make a difference?” One pound a month will pay for a ticket to FiLiA, and this will make a huge difference, as you've heard, to women who maybe otherwise could not come along. So please do consider joining us with a monthly donation if you can.

 And the other thing that we really want to encourage is to buy solidarity tickets. I think it was over 180 solidarity tickets we were able to gift last year, to women who would not have been able to attend otherwise. So please consider gifting a solidarity ticket. Our aim is to hit 250 this year, but if we exceed that, I will be extremely happy. 

 Sally: I'd say to women, get involved. You know, check us out, have a look on the website.

 People come to feminism from all sorts of different angles, so have a look through the podcast, have a look through the blogs. I can guarantee there'll be something on there that interests you. And what I’d suggest is, you at least listen to one that you kind of like think, “oh, environment, yeah, I'm really interested in that.” Have a listen.

 And then have a listen to one that you would never have listened to before, because you will learn so much. These sunny days we have at the moment, sit in the garden with a podcast. It's the perfect way to spend the afternoon. And then later on, listen to it again, cause you're bound to fall asleep in the garden.

 Get involved with the merch as well. We've got some fantastic merchandise on the website, as well through eBay and, you know, very up to date, we've got our FiLiA masks so you can support us through walking around and having your FiLiA logo to proudly display wherever you go.

 The newsletter comes out every Friday. You are going to kick yourself if you're not signed up to that. So when you're on the website, there'll be a little button that comes up that says you can sign up, and make sure you tick that button and put your details in. 

 Raquel: Yes, if you can encourage a friend or a colleague or someone on your network. A family member, your sister, your mom, your grandmother. Encourage someone in your circle to come with you, especially if you can come together, because it really is something… 

 The feminist conference that we hold is really something to be shared with another woman in your circle, really energising. And sometimes the topic can be draining, but then you can dance it off, and it’s just very powerful and you will not regret it. You will not regret bringing a woman to the conference with you. 

 Sara: Wonderful. Does that cover everything? I think I want to do all of those things, I want to go listen to a podcast, I want to be signed up to the newsletter. Wait, I'm already doing all of those things, so that's good.

 So I'm going to move on to the final question, if that's okay, and that is, what is your favourite feminist quote, and why? 

 Lisa-Marie: Without a doubt, my favorite quote is Susan B. Anthony. And I heard about this quote from Kathleen Barry who wrote a biography on Susan B. Anthony. And it's my next tattoo, actually.

 And Susan B. Anthony - I think they were her final, or among her final words before she moved away from public life, and the words were, failure is impossible. And I firmly, firmly believe that. 

 Sally: So my first one is, “I can't believe we're still protesting this shit,” because, you know, as important as they are, several of the topics that we are protesting about have been around for some time, and we need to sort that out.

 But I would say, you know, any favorite quote I'd have to include a Maya Angelou, she's an absolute shero of mine, and I think perhaps pertinent to FiLiA is, “there's no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside of you.” And I hope that what we do is enable women to tell those stories. 

 Kruti: I'll also share two quotes that are important to me. The first one is proclaimed by Mao Zedong, and the quote is, “women hold up half the sky.” It reminds me of my journey into feminism, which as I mentioned is only a few years old, and one of the first books that really spoke to me on the need for our liberation is called Half The Sky by Nicholas Kristof and Cheryl WuDunn.

 And I just feel like the quote really speaks to our place in the world. Women are half of humanity. We are half of everything. We deserve our rightful place in decision making, and political representation, and telling our stories, and anything that concerns us. So that quote is quite important to me from, like, my history and my journey into feminism.

 And then the second quote I wanted to share is one by Ida B. Wells. And for anyone who doesn't know Ida B. Wells was an American activist and journalist, who was born into slavery and challenged lynching, and fought against the sexual assault of Black women, and her quote is, “the way to right wrongs is to turn the light of truth upon them.”

 And this is exactly what I think that FiLiA does. It brings to the fore the things that I'd otherwise not know about, it shares stories and news, and it gives a voice to the voiceless, so that we know what the truth is and we can collectively fight to make things right. 

 Raquel: I also have two. The first one is from a Dominican feminist called (name) and she says, “I do not believe that I am here for nothing. This place needs a woman, and that woman is me.”

 And I love that quote because women and girls are often socialised to put ourselves last, to dismiss our own skills, to dismiss our own knowledge, to, sort of, to always assume that there's someone better. And with that quote, what she said in that quote is like, “no, no, you are the woman.” Like, don't dismiss yourself. If there's something that it's doing, you are the woman who can do it. So I always find that very energising.

 And then the other quote is also from Susan B. Anthony. And I heard it, I mean, it could be like some sort of interpretation, but I heard it on this movie, a feminist movie about the women's suffrage movement in the United States. And it's from the movie Iron Jawed Angels, in which they're recalling the struggle for women suffrage, and Alice Paul is… in the US.

 And they have this desk in their office where they're planning a march, a massive march, to encourage people to support women's suffrage. So there's this desk that belongs to Susan B. Anthony, and Alice Paul, sort of, leans against the desk, and she's full of nerves, and she's very anxious, and she doesn't know how she's going to deal with all of the problems of organising a massive, nationwide march, when she's going to be protested and all that stuff.

 So she leans against the desk and she says, “what would Susan B. Anthony say,” because the desk belongs to Susan B. Anthony. Lucy Burns asks Alice, and Alice said, “she says, just do it.” And I love that quote, because it's like, every single action or every single little thing that I have done for the women's rights movement, it's always been preceded by the nerves, and the anxiety, the hesitation, and “I don't know if I should do this,” you know?

 And then you just have to, sort of, like, centre yourself, and just do it. You know, whether that is participating in a podcast, whether that is coming to our conference, whether that is volunteering for FiLiA, just do it. You know, just take the step. And after that things will become clearer and clearer.

 But it really helps galvanise me, to write that article, to finish that speech, you know, to say yes to this meeting, to whatever it is that I want to do, feminism-wise, it always helps me to just, sort of, like, take that moment of just saying, “Raquel, just do it.” So that's my favourite quote, yeah.

 Julian: So I have two very short quotes. One is one of those that you read and it makes you nod along and think, “yes, I agree with that,” and that is from Audre Lorde: “Only one thing is more frightening than speaking your truth, and that is not speaking.” And that speaks to me very much from the perspective of amplifying women's voices.

 But the feminist quote that I think will stay with me, and that represents FiLiA to me more than anything else, is, “women make magic happen,” Lisa-Marie Taylor. That sums up FiLiA to me, and I cannot imagine a better CEO to continue… work forward than Lisa-Marie.

 I mean it! That wasn't for the benefit of the recording! 

 Lisa-Marie: I was not expecting that, and I'm not crying one bit.

 Raquel: That's so beautiful!

 Sara: Wonderful. Well, thank you all so much for so generously being part of this podcast. Huge thanks to Lisa-Marie, Julian, Sally, Kruti, and Raquel, for sharing all your thoughts on this and your time.

 And I suppose I'd just like to finish on the note to say, putting on my, like, team hat here, that FiLiA is incredibly grateful to our current trustees, our previous trustees and all of our amazing volunteers past and present, as well as all the women who support us. Because we really wouldn't be anywhere without you.

 Sending sisterhood and solidarity from the whole team. So thank you and thank you for listening to this podcast.