Introducing WAVE - Women Against Violence in Europe. 

WAVE is a network of women's specialist services.

Sally Jackson from FiLiA in conversation with:

Stephanie Futter Orel – Executive Director

Branislava Aradjan – Project Youth Ambassador

Beverly Mtui – Communications Coordinator

Sally: Hi, it's Sally Jackson from FiLiA trustee and volunteer and global lead for male violence against women and girls. And I'm really pleased to be joined today by three women from the organization WAVE, Women Against Violence in Europe. I've got Stephanie, Branislava and Beverly joining me to hear all about WAVE, which within Hague Mothers we're really excited are one of our new partners that we're working with this year.

So I wonder perhaps if I come around to each of you, you could just give me a little bit of background of yourselves and how you came to join WAVE and be working with them. So maybe Stephanie, if I could start with you. 

Stephanie: Hi, Sally. Thank you. So I've been at WAVE since 2017 as the Executive Manager, now Executive Director.

My background is I've worked for over seven years in Women's Frontline Services in shelters. I prefer to call them refuges actually, because it's more than a roof over your head. But there we go. Women's centres, counselling services, helplines in the UK, in London. I've lived nine years in London and eventually my partner and I left on the verge of Brexit.

And then when we returned to Austria, I became, I was aware of WAVE and became aware of this post and this is how I came to WAVE and I really appreciate the option to be able to work on violence against women in a whole European context. And it does help that our members are women's specialist services mainly. And it's really interesting to see how women's specialist services, even in countries where there's severe backlash against women's rights, are able to still make some progress. should be able to make more with more resources and less pushback, but they still do. And I always have my own background in specialist services as a reference point from an albeit very comparatively privileged background in the UK to if you compare it to, let's say, Armenia or Russia, like the situation before the war and after and other countries.

So this is maybe a little bit of background about me and how I came to WAVE and study wise I've come from a political science background. 

Sally: That's brilliant. Thank you, Stephanie.

 Branislava, tell me a bit about you. 

Branislava: Hi Sally, I'm very happy to be part of this conversation today. So my name is Branislava Aradjan.

I come from Serbia. I've joined WAVE in November 2021. I started as a youth ambassador coordinator and now I'm a project and youth ambassador coordinator. So my academic background is law, but I started my activist human rights path when I was 15. So now it's almost 15 years doing this and basically working with youth. I am very passionate about this.

 I was following WAVE's work for some years. I was very excited and I was thinking about joining the Youth Ambassadors initiative, but I was always delaying this as I had too many things to work already on the local level. And then at some point when I finished my studies, I saw the vacancy for coordinating the youth investors. And I actually thought that this would be probably my dream job and something that I was already working on a local and let's say a national level back in Serbia. So I actually really saw this as an opportunity to extend my knowledge and maybe also my, impact and expertise on the European context. It was both a challenge and opportunity. 

And basically, this is how I came to wave and maybe just to add here about to the youth ambassador’s initiative, because this is also a very important part of waves work. We are also aiming to give space and platform for youth and to actually include them because they do definitely bring a different perspective.

And basically I was running the project Safeguarding and Empowering Children, which I also see as a part of empowering youth. And we will talk more about it during this conversation because this is the project where we actually involved also Hague Mothers and I do feel that I will go back to youth's role in this fight again.

Sally: Brilliant, thank you. Loads of experience there, which, as you say, I'm really interested to hear more about as we go forward. And last but absolutely not least at all Beverley, tell me a little bit about you. 

Beverley: Hello, my name is Beverley, and I'm the communications coordinator at WAVE. I have over six years of experience in working in Different NGOs, feminist NGOs working to end violence against women and girls at a national, but also European level.

And my feminist professional career actually started with WAVE as an intern in 2017. And I've certainly worked my way up to a full time position now as a communications coordinator. So it's safe to say that WAVE has shaped me professionally and personally. My motivation to become a part of WAVE was certainly to be part of a feminist movement of a feminist community and this exchange with other feminist activists from across Europe and getting insight into different contexts and perspectives again have shaped me in so many ways as a woman, as an activist, as an intersectional feminist. And I think just as Wave's journey is not over yet, neither is mine.

And yeah, in my spare time, outside of WAVE, I'm also a freelance journalist, and I aim to visibilize the different lived realities of people of African descent through an empowering and uplifting approach, and overall, I'd say that the aim of my intersectional activism and work is to provide a platform to marginalized identities and to amplify their voices. 

Sally: That's brilliant. Thank you, Beverly. Again, I'm interested to, to hear more about that.

 But I suppose for our listeners, the obvious question to start with is we've mentioned WAVE, and that stands for Women Against Violence in Europe. But Stephanie, can you tell me a bit more about what WAVE is, how it operates, what it's about?

Stephanie: I'm trying to summarize this more simply before going to the official terms we use for funders and so on. 

Essentially, WAVE is a network of women's specialist services, so shelter centres and helplines in 46 European countries. So what we are trying to do is to strengthen the feminist movement in Europe and particular frontline services, connect them amongst each other, enable exchange and learning, ensure that our members are strong and have resources wherever possible, connect them regionally and internationally, that is the capacity building part of our work.

And we also work on ensuring that there are stronger, when new stronger pieces of legislation to prevent and tackle violence against women and girls, and if those laws exist already, that they are implemented both on European level, meaning the EU, but also the rest of Europe. And we support our members also in their national advocacy. So this is the overall advocacy campaigning part. 

And we also aim to visibilize what immense contribution women's specialist services make to ensuring women are safe, if they do experience violence, how and that they, wherever possible, that it is prevented through primary prevention and how those services operate and make it visible how difficult the circumstances they operate in sometimes are.

For instance, how member countries in the network adhere or do not adhere to existing international legal standards, such as the Istanbul Convention. 

And we do that through various publications, but also mainly through the WAVE country report that gets published every two years. Now we collect data on the status of women's specialist services in all member countries.

And also we highlight the gaps in funding and legal pushback against women's rights. And we also have a range of other publications and communications, which I'm sure Beverly will give you more detail on.

 In short, what we do is international advocacy and campaigning. Particularly in European level capacity building work for our members through what I already explained, the exchange of knowledge, resources, movement, building, and we also have international partnership projects, our members would not be able to administer because they often smaller frontline services that are EU funded, UN funded and so on, as well as re granting where we channel grants directly to our members. That's relatively new. A new part of our capacity building. We do data collection and evidence building about women's specialist services.

I'm sorry, this is always long. It's really difficult to explain what WAVE does in a nutshell. 

Sally: But also because you do so much. And as you say, from, that supporting and building the network and looking at and really coming to the reality of what's life like in those different countries rather than just looking at the policies and the laws that different countries have.

But what does that really mean on the ground? I think it's really important that we, we recognize that's not always one and the same thing. 

Stephanie: And one element, sorry, I forgot, which is not a very big one, but key when it comes to, for instance The Hague convention, we also support women through our so called cross border support service, women who are fleeing one country to the other from violence. Mainly domestic violence, also sexual violence, and we connect them with our members in the country and ensure they get to the right place to receive support. And through this service, we respond to about on average 40 cases per year that we get via email, sometimes social media, sometimes phone calls.

And this is where we've also become aware first-hand of some of the damage The Hague Convention does and I will come back to this later on because we also were on an advocacy level of the huge problems there. 

Sally: That's helpful. Thanks. And I think that's how we came to, to think actually, it would be really helpful to be working a bit more closely together and we're really pleased that you are partnering with us.

And you've touched on it there, but can you tell us a little bit more of all the types of violence against women that you work on across Europe? What it is around Hague Mothers and The Hague Convention and that aspect of work that interested you and that you might be, as you say, already be involved in?

Stephanie: Okay, I can start this and maybe then Brani can also fill in from the toolkit that we've just created part and Beverly, please feel free to join in terms of communications.

 In terms of, I would say it's important to distinguish between WAVE as the umbrella organization and our members. Our members deal with all forms of violence against women.

So members are dealing with Domestic violence and sexualised violence certainly are large parts. However, also economic violence, so called honour based violence, forced marriage, FGM, there are many aspects, trafficking, and literally any form of violence. 

We as an Umbrella Body try and aim to raise awareness about these forms of violence and also where they affect women who may not necessarily be seen or recognized equally amongst mainstream populations.

For instance, we have also members working with lesbian, bisexual, trans women, and this has been difficult to visibilize that kind of work. There's often a lot of conflicting attitudes towards working with the women or not, and we also partnering with other organizations aiming to educate ourselves and enable mutual learning.

How these experiences can be served better by specialist service and also how specialist services operate and collaborating on advocacy and we're looking how we can work together more with the Eurocentral lesbian community. Euro Central Asian lesbian community and how to join forces as a feminist movement. These are different forms of violence against women being covered. 

In terms of The Hague Convention, not only The Hague Convention, but also national level, all our member countries have reported that there's an increasing level of human rights abuses in child custody proceedings at court, specifically human rights abuses of the children's and mother's rights.

Often domestic violence is not taken into account at all in custody decisions and that is to speak only on national level where the same legal system applies to both. We've also heard from members and we've seen it ourselves in the cross border support service, how complex the cases get if there are two legal systems involved.

Usually there's a huge power imbalance. Be it national or international, because the perpetrator often has more access to resources or better lawyers, or if he is native to the specific country, then he will also have much more knowledge how the system works. And this is an aspect, it's, in overall context of violence against women, most of our members would agree that different prevalence’s, but that violence against women is often affecting their country similarly.

However, we've seen a very clear narrative that this form of violence specifically, so violence against children and their mothers in court proceedings and custody decisions, is significantly on the rise in the last few years. As a consequence, we've also made this as one of our key strategic priorities for the next three to four years to work on.

I will shortly hand over to Branislava because we've done some pieces of work around child custody proceedings in court, and we are really pleased to be connected to The Hague mothers on these topics and also on these international dynamics, which are extremely difficult for the women to navigate often in the lack of resources that the man is usually more believed, especially if he speaks the language better, if he's native to the country and has a support network.

And this is something we really want to tackle and bring more to the attention of the relevant international and national. Did I answer the question? 

Sally: I think you did. Yeah, no, that's really helpful. And, recognizing that whole breadth of issues that WAVE is involved in, why this is becoming issue, as you say, the sort of like the increased prevalence really bringing up your priority list to be something that you're focused on. 

Stephanie: I will connect to this later on, because I know that's another language, but it directly connects to the ongoing backlash against women's rights in so many European countries and the rise of the father's rights movement and so on.

But we'll get to this later. I'm handing over to Brani now for showcase more specific pieces of work. 

Sally: Sure. And that makes sense because one of the things I think that we were really pleased to support and work with you a little bit with is this toolkit that WAVE has produced around victim friendly child custody practice and one of the things that really impressed me about it is how it takes that human rights framework and look at, what are the basic rights for children, for mothers, and then the complications in achieving those rights.

So perhaps could you tell us a little bit about the toolkit, Branislava? 

Branislava: So maybe just to give an overview how this project actually started, because we are now entering in the third year of how we are working on this issue. 

So basically, how we started this project on safeguarding children was because we were very aware of the fact that when a woman comes into an institution, let's say a shelter or refuge or a different support centre, what happens very often is that she struggles a lot with her own trauma because of the domestic violence.

And what also happens is that sometimes there is a lack of capacity from her side and also from the staff from different actors that are involved in this process to actually give certain level of attention. And let's say what is also the problem is that sometimes the children who also suffered from domestic violence and from abusive father, they are seen as victims, but on the other side we should see children who witnessed the violence against the mother. We should also see them as victims, right?

 And in, in this whole mess, when we are trying to support the woman and give her the best quality and the service and to just bring her back to normal life and to support her in all judicial proceedings, in just gaining her physical and mental health again we can sometimes really put children's perspective and children's needs on side. 

So what we wanted to do and how we started a project in 2022, we wanted to create guidelines for safeguarding and empowering children on a very basic level and to actually cover everything that one institution should have and bear in mind while trying to protect both women and their children once they are in the institution.

So we did this and we created the first document like all of these documents and information can be found on our website, but we started with these basic guidelines where we actually created like a legal framework with all the most important international legal policies and documents that should be considered.

But we also then went into what is actually the code of conduct. What are the behaviours? What are those specific areas where wave members, but also any other institutions that are taking care of women and children in this process, where they should put a lot of attention. 

And we did publish these guidelines and they should be used in a way that everyone should be aware of and able to put them in a national setting. 

So basically they should also consider all the national laws or all the resources that are available in their own countries, but also who are the actors that are involved in these processes in because this also differs from different countries, right? In different countries.

Also, what we did is we involved four partners from four different countries just to, for the sake of getting different perspectives, and then just being able to gain more perspective on what are maybe some harmful things that are happening or on the other side, what are the promising practices and how some of the partners actually use laws and what tools are used to actually achieve safeguarding the children in these processes.

 So our four partners are Autonomous Women's House Zagreb from Croatia, and then NANE Women's Rights Association from Hungary. We involved CIF Central Information Office of Autonomous Women's Shelters from Germany and the Women's Rights Foundation from Malta.

And then what happened after this first year, we used this year also in different settings. We had different workshops or webinars where we talked about this with our members and we were trying to get even more input and more feedback on what is necessary and where they're struggling the most. And this is also maybe just to add what was, what Stephanie already shared.

This was also the reason why we decided to really put a lot of focus into child custody, what Stephanie already said, but it was very clear that after the separation, the custody issues and questions become usually the only space where a perpetrator can actually extend its abuse and to really extend the control and to continue its harm towards the woman.

So basically, we decided to create one more document, which would be, let's say, even more practical and to really include and to give an overview of everything, all the harmful practices that are happening across Europe now, but then also to try to give some recommendations and conclusions of what national actors should push for in their national settings.

And I think we did manage to do this. The toolkit also contains some of the basic legal principles. It does talk a lot about the best interest of child, which you're probably aware that is very often misused and sometimes it's interpreted as right of a child to be in contact with both parents instead of actually taking into consideration the abuse that happened and that actually in cases where there are allegations of domestic violence, you should not even consider whether the visitation should occur or where to whom the child should belong to.

 Basically we also, what I said, we included some principles we mapped different harmful practices, and this is where The Hague convention really came into a spot because this is a really an emerging problem. 

It was really interesting to see how an instrument which was actually intended, when it was created, which was intended to actually protect mothers in cases where a perpetrator was threatening or actually taking away the child, how now it's used by fathers to actually continue the abuse over the mothers and to just bring them back.

And unfortunately, there are so many statistics that are showing that in this period and also anytime during the child custody procedures, there is a lot of cases of femicides or infanticides as well, which is very disturbing. And for us, yeah, that was the reason why we decided to really put a lot of focus it in the next years at WAVE.

And this is also where we decided to actually in the toolkit, there is a part, we are talking about The Hague Convention as a part of the harmful practices, but also what we did. We actually added one. Let's say an annexe where we went really deep into the convention and for what it is used for and what are actually the most important articles.

And this part can actually be used even by mothers. Because what we also wanted to achieve is to really give space and opportunity for mothers and children as well, but I, it should be then turned into children's friendly manual, but I guess what we want to do is to really give all the necessary information, a little bit of, let's say, comfort and just the information that mothers are not alone in this process.

And we actually created like a very practical part, around 10 pages where everyone can read what is this process and when a mother can be accused under this convention and what actually happens and if this happens and what are the tools that can be then used by mothers and where to pay attention to, how to avoid this.

And basically, this is the part where Hague Mothers were involved. And I do feel that because now in 2024, what we want to do is we actually want to disseminate this toolkit and actually put it in force, put it in implementation. So in 2024, we are aiming to continue the project work with a trio of our partners from Croatia, Malta, and Hungary.

And what we plan to actually do is to conduct workshops in national settings so that our partners can already share everything that we put together in the toolkit. And then bas during these workshops, what we want to do is to actually create a national action plans that all the participants from the workshops can actually agree on.

And this can go all the way from pushing for different or better legislation, or on the other side, implementation of good existing legislation in national context. And then basically we would see after all these workshops are done, we would then see what would be the next steps based on all the outputs that we gather.

And I feel that with The Hague mothers, we will definitely have more space to work with. I guess this podcast is one of these cooperation parts. But then also we would see the way how we will structure this year would be based on the, needs and input from our members.

Sally: That’s really helpful. Thank you. And it really shows I think a toolkit can be great, but if it's not used and it's not useful, then it doesn't make a change. But you've really emphasized how practical it is for different organizations and even mothers and children, possibly as well, to be able to pick up and make use of.

 I suppose, the effect of WAVE being a network is one of the reasons that helps to, as you say, gather voices from different countries and learn about issues and problems, but also really importantly, promising practice that's emerging. But equally from a communications point of view, Beverly, I imagine that there are some challenges around such a wide network with legislation being different in different countries, obviously languages being different.

Can you tell us a bit about how it works and how you involve everyone bearing in mind those kind of like really obvious challenges around working across such a large area with many different languages that you're dealing with?  

Beverley: yes, as we've shared, Wave is a European network. So we have members from across Europe who all come from different contexts, have different perspectives and all speak different languages.

But of course, having English as a working language makes it easier when it comes to communication. And we of course have many different platforms and channels through which and in which we communicate with our members from in person meetings that we have throughout the year to online activities. 

We try as much as we can to not only collect information from our members, but also to then share this with our external audience and of course, the key role of structuring WAVE as a network are our different bodies. 

On the one hand, we have our WAVE membership, but then also we have our board, our advisory board, and the WAVE office, which we represent today. And our WAVE office is the headquarters or the linchpin for the whole network.

 Through the colleagues that are working in the office we provide the capacity building trainings to our members. We support our members and advocacy and campaigning and other elements and activities that we do at WAVE. So it's also conducive to have this sort of linchpin for the whole network that sort of brings together these different elements that WAVE represent.

And then also, as I mentioned, we have an advisory board that consists of 1 to 2 delegates for each country. On one hand, we have different members across Europe, but then we also have these delegates that support in gathering information, seeing what are some of the pressing issues at a local level, and then communicating that to us as well so we are able to get a bigger picture and seeing what the overall focus of WAVE is, whether that be in communications, whether that be in supporting our members through capacity building or advocacy and lobbying. 

Sally: That's really interesting. Thank you. And you mentioned and we touched on earlier with Stephanie around the 46 different countries that you're involved in. And I know certainly in the UK, the specialist services for women are in a constant battle where we're losing funding, especially our buy and for services, doubly impacting in cuts in services and what they're able to provide. And I know you've done some research across those countries about like the state of women's specialist services.

What sort of things did you find Beverly? 

Beverley: Yes, so since our foundation in 1994, we're actually celebrating our 30th anniversary this year. We have been continuously advancing research and knowledge on violence against women. And at the centre of our research activities is the WAVE Country Report. So this is our main publication that is published every two years.

And as you said, it represents an important tool for highlighting the situation of women's specialist services across Europe. So to put forward the feminist and civil society perspective of preventing, tackling and addressing violence against women. Therefore, this is actually the only report that is scattering data on the status of women's specialist services.

The newest Wave Country report was published at the end of 2023. And again, it highlights the status and value of women's specialist services. In not only tackling violence against women, but for the first time also in preventing violence against women. And we've recently published an interview on our online magazine with our two WAVE team members who worked on the country report, which is called Behind the Pages, the WAVE country report and its impact.

And this interview really delves into the origins and objectives of the WAVE country report and also explores the impactful findings and the significance of the latest report. 

And I can share with you some of the information that our colleagues who worked on the country report mentioned in this interview.

Before I go into the information, something that's also important to highlight is that the country report gives insight into the implementation or lack of the Istanbul Convention standards, and it complements the graveyard shadow report. That is also a key element of the country report. 

So we look, as we said, look at the status of women's specialist services in the country report that covers women's helplines, women's shelters, centres as well as specialist services for sexualized violence, and then, like I said, for the first time, primary prevention is also tackled within the report. 

When it comes to national helplines in the country report 2023, there was an improvement in the number of countries that have a helpline that complies with the Istanbul Convention standards that was observed in this year's in the 2023 country report, complying with the Istanbul Convention standards here, it means that it is a state-wide, round the clock, 24 7 available and free of charge national helpline. And in fact, the number has actually gone up from 30 countries, as it was said in the country report, 2021, to 32.

 Another aspect that is a consistent element throughout the WAVE country reports that there is still a considerable lack of women shelters, for example, out of, for example, 20 out of 27 EU member states and 16 out of 19 states outside of the EU are still failing to meet the recommended requirements for provision of bed spaces when it comes to women's shelters.

 There are many other elements that I or that we could present. But overall, the findings of the country report show that there's still a desperate need for women's specialist services to be available in adequate numbers and across countries and the European continent. And for that, it is also necessary to have long term financial resources.

 And that is also why the country report is such a key element in advocating and lobbying for the importance of funding for women's specialist services, but also just their key role in tackling violence against women.

Sally: Thank you, Beverly. Stephanie, was there something you'd like to add to that? 

Stephanie: Yeah, maybe just some overall context where we're operating in and what the challenges are. Across the board, what we hear from all member countries is that the funding situation for women's specialist services is increasingly precarious in many countries.

And there's a very strong tendency towards gender neutral service provision. And there are several aspects to that also in Nordic countries in Sweden or in Finland, for instance, in Finland, they've had gender neutral services for, I think, almost 20 years now, but there's that kind of fear of excluding men.

And it's very important to highlight that we need to say this over and over again in our advocacy work, that gender neutral services would ignore the structural oppression of women that has been going on for hundreds and thousands of years, and whereas obviously men can also be victims of gender based violence, the vast majority are women.

For instance, there's also the misguided assumption that this is generally more inclusive for all women, whereas, and it will shortly be published as a report by the Eurocentral Lesbian Community, which also highlights how actually gender neutral services mostly affect those women who are already marginalized in society even more.

For instance, they are, we've had those who joined advocacy work in collaboration to say that you need to say the word women, or if it's lesbian women or trans women or intersex persons or bisexual person. It needs to be mentioned because it's still a difference if you're a woman. 

And gender neutral commissioning and funding has been a huge problem in many countries or where women's specialist services are suddenly forced to take on men as well in order to keep their funding.

And the thresholds for funding are increasingly complicated for many specialist services because they're very commercialized, they're being tendered out. I know in the UK this has been a problem for many years, even when I was still there. So it's the cheapest provider gets the contract, whether or not they have this specific experience seems to be irrelevant for some funders, so we're housing associations around women's shelters who may know how to put a roof over someone's head, but they don't know how to deal with complex trauma.

So this is across the board a problem. in Europe at the moment, and one that we are trying to highlight. 

There's also an increasing pushing by general services, general victim services, for all victims of crimes, or if you were, for instance, robbed on the street, or if someone broke into your home, or even if you were a victim of terrorist acts, to claim that they do exactly the same as we do, which is absolutely not the case, because no one organization can cover all forms of trauma, and we say there is also a need for general victim services, of course, But there's a very specific need for the women's specialist services. We need to go hand in hand. 

And it's not about a competition, but it's about complementarity and also multi-agency work across the sector with different stakeholders. These are some of the key battles or challenges in the background. 

Sally: Absolutely. And as you say, we see that playing out and the fear as well, that when you have those larger gender neutral contracts that anyone can pick up and run the service, the lowest unit cost is, how you can call women who've been traumatized a unit cost is beneath me, but we hear that, but you also lose all that knowledge and experience and specialism that the women's sector has built up.

We talk about trauma informed, et cetera, recognizing that 20, 30 years ago, we were sitting down and talking to women and we just didn't call it trauma informed, we just said trauma. 

Stephanie: And it's also just one more sentence. It's not about the numbers, it's about the quality of service.

Because we often see general services, and this is from my own practice still, who count a woman who comes four times as four different service users, whereas she may have come back so many times because she didn't receive the support she needed. And then, for instance, a specialist service who supports her for one year and has done 15 or 16 different interventions counts her as one woman.

Because it's not about the numbers that you attend, but the quality of service you provide and are received and the impact it has on the woman and their children, if any, lives. 

Sally: Absolutely. And it's really great to know that as individual services, small, maybe locally run or specialist provision are fighting those battles.

We've also got the support of WAVE across Europe, with the same message that is sharing that. 

One of the things you mentioned earlier, Stephanie, was around capacity building work. And again, that's something I think that can help services because we are now, sometimes competing with, multinational organizations that are doing provision.

So can you tell us a little bit about the capacity building work that you're involved with in WAVE? 

Stephanie: So our capacity building work has several strands to it. So one of the oldest forms is also training of members in specific core topics and we usually tailor the training to the needs of the membership, where we either ask through a survey or discuss this in our advisory board meeting in spring, it's usually almost three days in spring in Vienna and a shorter one in October with the conference in those member spaces. And we now have as a new feature, also regional meetings started last summer. We have six different regions in WAVE and over the next three years in there will be two in person regional meetings every year, and the others will be online, because that's where we can also get the feedback and input from members. 

And as a network, we are now too large to just rely on our advisory board meetings and the conference or in between project meetings. We're really trying to tailor the training and the webinars or in person trainings to the member’s needs.

In any given year or period of strategy, which usually three or four years. But obviously, this can change the product can change from year to the other. This is the training part. And again, also, as Branislava highlighted before, for instance, we are creating more practice oriented resources like toolkits, and then also seeing how they can be implemented, replicated in different national contexts. And at times also train the trainer programs so they can be used by as many member countries as possible. 

Another important aspect, which I've mentioned before, those international partner projects where WAVE is often the lead and provides a European pan- European perspective, but we work with different national members because they wouldn't be able to administer a large EU grant or UN grant, or even the OECD, which may not be as large as the European Commission in terms of grants, but it's still quite complex. 

So to be able to do that work together and get concrete pieces of work funded, and also an aspect that comes with that is often regional or international cooperation between the different member countries.

And that often goes beyond the project or WAVE collaboration they had, which is also really good. We had, for instance, a five-year project in the Western Balkans and Turkey about implementation of the Istanbul Convention in that area and also strengthening of women's regional networks. And that was the first civil society women's network collaboration since the Yugoslav war in the 90s.

And some of these connections, obviously not between all members and countries, but have stayed strong and built really a connection on regional level. 

And then the other part I mentioned briefly in terms of capacity building is the re granting. The re granting, I need to give context to that because WAVE, as we are such an Umbrella of so many countries and often grassroots women's services as well. We have been approached, particularly when the war broke out, the aggression from Russia against Ukraine, the war broke out in Ukraine. We were approached by some of our donors who wanted to give to frontline services, to women's frontline services, but they didn't. have the capacity to go to so many different smaller organizations locally. WAVE became a kind of funding facilitator. And in most of those cases we, anyway, we pass the funding on 100%. And we are also doing now a re-granting program with some of two key of our donors where we obviously have to take some cuts for staff costs as well, because it's also quite a lot to administer.

But we've started doing this now last year to re grant to members in specific regions and particularly also in those that are affected by an increasing backlash against women's human rights.

 Last year was a pilot year and we had about in total a bit more than a hundred thousand euros to re grant.

So two different tranches of fifty, fifty-five thousand euros. They're usually smaller grants, five to ten thousand euros, although mostly ten thousand is a more popular size. And we are running this second year now, and this has proved popular because the grants, we are really aiming to tailor them to services who are underfunded.

So the grants can also be used to patch gaps in existing funding. The organizations do have priority who work with marginalized groups, minority groups of all kinds, and also women who are from a migrant or refugee background, disabled women and older women prevention work, which often is not very popular with the funders because they want to see a more immediate outcome, especially those that come from a state and they can also be used for new projects.

It has gone well, and it's an amazing pieces of work we implemented, which would have otherwise gone unfunded. So this is something we want to explore more and develop.

We also have a so called now solidarity fund, because at times we get, we are not a donations based organization, but we want to make it easier for individuals also to donate. But we sometimes have certain grants where we can use them more freely for members, so we have our membership fees, which we want to reinvest in the network and especially those that are heavily affected by crisis conflict or disproportionate funding cuts because now everyone's affected by funding cuts or political persecution. So we want to, and this is something the Solidarity Fund is fairly new because it was previously, especially for Ukraine and neighbouring countries who supported a lot of women and children refugees.

And this is something we aim to develop more so to be more flexible. 

Sally: Excellent. Thank you. Yeah. Huge amount of work going on. I suppose to finish up, I'd just like to ask you, in the midst of this, as you said, increasing backlash for males rights, activists the misogyny that women are continuing to have to face, what is it that keeps you optimistic?

What are your hopes for the next year in going forward? Perhaps, Bran, if I could start with you. 

Branislava: This is a very tricky question. I guess there is one situation which happened with my partners, because at some point during our regular meetings, we always talk about a little bit about what is happening in their countries and what they are working on currently.

And then at some point they shared the despair because of the, what is happening currently across whole Europe. And then I try to give some comfort words to them and to say that sometimes when you are working in this topic for such a long time, and you devoted the whole life, sometimes it's very hard to actually see some like positive stuff or things that are maybe improving.

But then what they shared was that because they are in this work, they're working on this for the past 20, 30 years, or even more. The challenges and the level of backlash that is happening. And basically the resources that now having and being able to use. It's on a larger scale than it was in 20 or 30 years ago.

So for me, this was also a little bit of Oh, okay. So maybe I'm just maybe in my bubble of seeing things nicely. And I do have to say that my perspective on this definitely changed when I, moved from a local level of work and then moved to a European. 

But what I have to say, maybe as a positive point here and what I also see as a staff member of wave. I definitely see the power of movements and feminist collectives and networks, especially the ones that are big, such as WAVE network. I think it definitely gives a lot of strength, a lot of more tools and resources. What is important to remember is always that we are in this situation and how women's rights were developing, this did not come in two days.

So I do feel, and I always remember this, that it cannot be changed, even though it doesn't sound nice, but it cannot be changed in two days. And we all have maybe a small role. We are all like a, let's say a piece of a puzzle, right? And we do have our roles. And it does take a lot of time, but I do feel that it's a long term process and we just need to have this in our minds while working in this even when it's the most challenging and maybe one more thing and why I always say why I enjoy working is you with you.

They are definitely my source of inspiration. of motivation and inspiration and especially the young people from today, right? They're so aware of these problems. You have a lot of more involvement of males as well in this fight. They are also declaring themselves as feminists. And I also think that they definitely bring a different perspective. They bring more energy. They are here to take over the fight, right? Once when we are tired or like lacking inspiration and motivation and ideas, how to move forward.

 I think they are doing an amazing work. And I think we should give them definitely more space, more resources and involve them. And that's why I'm very happy that wave also has this initiative and we do have, and we see a lot of impact that they are actually putting into their national and local context, just from the fact that they are part of this bigger network.

And we are also giving them a capacity building. Yeah, maybe to finish. Just to be aware that this is a long term process and that we all have a certain role and it can be challenging, but it is moving slowly forward. Yeah. 

Sally: Thank you. Thank you. Absolutely. And Beverly, for you, same sort of a question. What is it that keeps you optimistic in moving forward? 

Beverley: I second everything that Branislava just said, but yeah, what keeps me optimistic? I think that, Wave is 30 years old now, and 30 years ago, it was a group of women who got together and saw the need and the importance of establishing a European network as a means to strengthen the feminist movement and just seeing where it goes.

And now, 30 years later, we're here with members across Europe, and we've made so much progress and we're able to have such an impact on multiple levels, national and European level. And I think, again, this collective strength and this resilience that this movement has that the network has had for the last 30 years and continues to be so influential and impactful is really what keeps me optimistic and also like Brani said, change doesn't come about with it, with just snapping your fingers and then everything is beautiful and great, but it takes time. It takes resilience. It takes patience. It takes dedication.

 And I think here also having this intergenerational collaboration of seeing and learning from each other, what is something that, what are some of the potentials that we can have? Issues from the past that we still face today. How can we make use of the resources of the past and implement them into the future? Because at the end of the day, we're all working towards the same goal, which is to live in a world that is free from violence, where everybody can exercise their human rights. And I think just knowing that we're stronger together and we're all eager to make this world a better place is something that despite the adverse adversities and the continuous backlash is way stronger. Optimistic due to collective strength.

Sally: Absolutely. Thank you, Beverly. And just final word to you, Stephanie. Same question. What's your optimism for the future? 

Stephanie: I think a lot has been said by Brani and Beverly already, and at times it has to be acknowledged as well that one can feel really down in the face of all those challenges, but I also feel that, for instance, in face of this huge backlash against women's rights, to bear in mind, if the politicians or groups that held so many unchallenged privileges for so long are that furious and feel so threatened, we must be getting somewhere.

And that is with a fraction of the funding they have, to fund the battles.

 I can also forward you a really interesting study from the European Parliamentary Research Service about how the right wing parties got funded over the last 20 years and how many hundreds of millions they've had. So even at the fraction of the money we have, we are able to make some progress and although we always would like more, we are getting somewhere and as if both Brani and Beverly have already mentioned their strength in the feminist movement and also not to forget that the structural oppression and violence that comes with such a patriarchal structure of hundreds and thousands of years takes time to dismantle.

So we need to acknowledge every little bit that we can dismantle and also the large challenges because at times it's also really important to be mindful of the progress we made because as a movement we are so geared towards addressing the problems we sometimes don't take time enough time to acknowledge what we've already made as a progress.

In that sense, I think there's reason for optimism, for not losing perspective. And as Brani has also mentioned, sometimes it takes also the, and Beverly also said this, the collaboration between the different generations. And if the newer generation comes in with new kind of energy and then we compare it with some of the experience of the previous that gives strength and makes the movement more sustainable.

Sally: Absolutely. Thank you. And it sums it up really nicely. And one of the key missions of FiLiA is sisterhood and solidarity and absolutely always amazes us. The immeasurable strength when women come together and, it might be slow and it may take time, but we do make change. And it's for me, thanks to inspiring women like yourself.

So I'd like to thank you all for joining me today to talk about WAVE and really look forward to working with you all more in the future. Thank you. 

Stephanie: And thank you so much also for all the work you are doing. And we all, we're all standing on each other's soldiers, like shoulders, not soldiers. We sometimes feel like soldiers, but shoulders across the movement.

So really, thank you to you as well. And we look forward to more work together.